12-Year-Old to Graduate from College with Five Degrees | Hacker News Reader

12-Year-Old to Graduate from College with Five Degrees

nbclosangeles.com

43 pointslxm63 comments

I had the opportunity to go to college at 10 and again at 13. I’m very glad I went instead to a math and science boarding school (IMSA) instead. The networking alone I was able to do there has been incredible for my adult life. Add on the ability to pursue independent research projects at a level equivalent to grad school and I was able to maximize my intellectual interests while still improving my personal skills and growth as a human being, not just an achievement machine.

If I had gone to uni and graduated with a PhD before 18 I know exactly how I would have ended up. With few friends, low career prospects, and extremely low odds of improving that situation.

Fellow IMSA alum here, also underage (skipped 3 grades). I'll cosign most of what atdrummond says here, but shift emphasis: to me and the majority of my friends (many of whom I'm still in regular contact with 30 years later), it was specifically being around other kids like us that was a godsend. The diversity was also broader than at most of our previous schools. The academics were an important part of it (not least to justify the state funding) but the unique value for a lot of us came from the nonacademic parts.

Re the OP, I wonder what's next for him. I know that college was a little weird but manageable as a freshman at 15; a junior at 12 is going to have an even more different experience (and then... grad school at 14?) But if he's motivated and it's not just his parents driving this, he'll come up with something and do fine, I'm sure.

Interesting, I’ve not heard about this alternate path for smart kids before. Looks like a magnet plus residential aspect.

Yes, there are a few states (these schools tend to be public) with such programmes. North Carolina was the pioneer of this model.

Once, I took Calculus 2 in the summer at a local community college to save some money before attending University. In my class were what I assume to be two brothers. The oldest was probably 12 and the youngest was 8. I thought that was so cool at the time. Community colleges are extremely underrated and I wish I would have known more about available opportunities during High School. It's such a much better environment for focusing on just academics.

I took computer programming classes at my local community college as a freshman in high school. I learned COBOL! It was a great experience. I encourage any parents to persuade their children to take a class or two at the local community college, especially parents of kids like me who were bored-as-fuck in high school and just stared out the window all day.

So did I! Once I realized I could take “school” classes at the local community college I did as much as possible.

Really opened my eyes.

This is something I was quite jealous of Americans. In Germany you can just go to claasses in university without paying but if you skip school too much you fail your grade no matter how good you are and not attending school at a young age is actually illegal. And then failing school disqualifies you from university.

German school was immensely frustrating to me. I'd lose grade for giving answers too early because the math level was so incredibly low.

At the same time I recognize now that in the grand scheme of things the average German high school is better than the average American one and that we had a lot things biology and chemistry that they don't seem to do until college

> At the same time I recognize now that in the grand scheme of things the average German high school is better than the average American one

What evidence do you have of this?

If you're thinking of the PISA tests, Americans do well on PISA compared to their ethnic relatives. <https://www.unz.com/isteve/the-new-2018-pisa-school-test-sco...> Asian Americans do better than Asians; whites do better than Europeans; Latinos do better than Latin Americans; and blacks do better than Africans.

Hispanics and especially blacks' scores drag the US average down. Both white and Asian Americans score higher than Canada (and white+Asian is essentially Canada's racial makeup), and higher than New Zealand, Australia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, Norway, and the UK; Estonia is below US Asians but above white Americans. Norway is by far the wealthiest Nordic state but its average is only two points higher than the US national average, despite not having a demographic that is 13% of the population and scores 85 points below the white American average.

Why does only one country get its data subdivided by ethnicity? I imagine that most countries have some groups that score better than others. Most ethnic minorities in Asia are "Asian", but in the 21st century there are plenty of non-white people in European countries.

> Why does only one country get its data subdivided by ethnicity? I imagine that most countries have some groups that score better than others. Most ethnic minorities in Asia are "Asian", but in the 21st century there are plenty of non-white people in European countries.

The US is an outlier among developed nations in terms of both numbers and composition for its minority population.

Example: The UK is 86% white. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingd...> Of the remainder, 7% are "Asian" (which in the UK almost always means Indian subcontinent, not east Asian as in the US) and 3% are black. By contrast, 13% of the US is black, and another 14-15% are Hispanic (of which about half are white). In other words, the percentage of the British population that is not white is about equal to the percentage of Americans that is black.

Plus, as I said, the huge gap in US PISA scores is between whites/Asians and blacks, not white and Asians. There are severe social dysfunctions among the Muslim portion of the British Asian population, but the non-Muslim portion performs very well on social and economic indicators.

Example: The largest Canadian non-white ethnicity is south Asian, at 7%, followed by Chinese at 5% and black at 4%. (Which is why I said that the ethnic composition of Canada is essentially white and Asian.)

Uh oh, stating facts contradicting the Equity Politburo only gets you a one way ticket to the Cancel gulag.

This is because you are measuring the entire cohort/generation of students.

Germany splits students into highschool (called Gymnasium, the academic track) and the vocational tracks at age 10.

Smart-kid highschool in Germany definitely moves faster than US highschools. Some even teach Greek and Latin for a well-rounded humanist education.

Yeah it's the same pattern. It's trendy, on either side of the aisle, to complain about how college is too expensive or how America spends too much on education. And then you see how it's different elsewhere, such as much less flexibility even if the schools are 'better'. The extra cost is the flexibility and accommodations that you don't typically see elsewhere. And also, tons of scholarships and other aid in the US.

It looks like you've been misinformed about American high school- biology and chemistry are standard required classes for graduation.

It's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison between countries. Americans' concepts of equality and fairness are highly averse to the sort of separation-by-test-results that is core to the German secondary education system, so every school tries to cater to every type of student, with varied results.

Idk, the cynic in me wonders what he actually had to do. Because for a lot of degrees the answer is basically nothing.

5 degrees should not be possible imo. Not because you can’t master 5 subjects but because you shouldn’t have time to do 5 classes worth of work.

It feels manufactured. Talking about the kid doing archery and going to 23 countries makes me feel this even more.

The college has a story of their own that gives a little more detail: he was there 3 years, and got 5 degrees: all associate of arts, in history, social sciences, social behavior and self-development, arts and human expression, and science and mathematics.

I assume part of the trick here is that there's substantial overlap in the requirements for each degree: all of those but history are actually interdisciplinary studies degrees, each with a different "emphasis."

Not to put down a 9-to-12-year-old taking community college classes, obviously that's impressive in its own right. It's just that there's probably a little bit of a gimmick involved.

He probably did Archery once during the summer...

It's all padding.

No one has the time to do any of that with any level of competency!

> Idk, the cynic in me wonders what he actually had to do. Because for a lot of degrees the answer is basically nothing.

I'm trying to remember any college course I took out of the three degrees I have (and extra college courses outside of that) that didn't require a lot of work. I'm not sure where you are coming up with this idea that it's not a lot of work and that it's okay to downplay someone's drive and abilities. Maybe it'd be more useful for you to do some internal reflection instead of dumping this garbage out on everyone here.

That’s literally a point I made in reverse. It’s too much work. For a good, real degree. This is not the story of a boy genius thriving on raw intelligence. I suspect this is a story of his parents manufacturing a story by figuring out how to get these degrees with the minimal possible effort.

Nobody gets 5 degrees in unrelated things out of personal interest. Especially not at 12. Normal interested people may take additional classes in other areas, but you don’t get 5 degrees unless you optimize for getting 5 degrees. Again, purely based on time.

The kid also had to be homeschool for normal school stuff the entire time. I say because I got annoyed and dug up additional info.

Something about the situation doesn't add up. The kid hasn't had time to do five "a lot of work" degrees worth of classwork; something's got to give. This is a 12-year old, not a 22-year old.

Appears to be a feeder community college so reasonably challenging courses. There's probably a fair bit of overlap between courses for the associate's degrees, and he probably just likes studying a ton.

> 5 degrees should not be possible imo.

They're associate's degrees from Fullerton, a community college.

> It feels manufactured.

It sounds more "enabled" to me. I'm jealous. I wish I had been able to take community college classes with a little more depth instead of boring junior high.

I'm not familiar with American community colleges, but the more cost-effective forms of higher education tend to focus more on exams than classes. The education is based more on demonstrating what you have learned than on highly structured study.

If I got the details right, he completed 10 years of studies in 3 years. That's impressive, especially for someone so young, but not unreasonable. Back when I was an undergrad in Finland, we had an informal definition for a high achieving student: 100 old credit units in a year, or 2.5x the nominal pace, with good grades. I knew a few people who did that at least once, and there was a newspaper story of someone who had apparently done it 7 years in a row.

When I was just out of school a couple years my boss quit and the company I worked for decided it would be good for me to manage a team of 5 developers. At the time I thought I did an OK job, but in retrospect I realize that there was no way for me to be good at managing people in their 30’s 40’s and 50’s. What did I know about being married, having a spouse, having kids, having to take care of sick people, having a home to maintain, etc. I knew nothing. That’s where I feel this kid is now. Lots of accomplishments on paper. Now go live and get experience to put it to use.

I think that's true for most degrees. You don't really leave college prepared for much. What mostly matters is real world experience.

This is an extreme analogy but there is a huge difference between reading about war and fighting in one

Because for a lot of degrees the answer is basically nothing.

Not in any meaningful, reality-based sense. If the place is legitimately accredited, there are always some significant requirements well beyond the description of "basically nothing".

> "Associates degree in History, Associates degrees in Science, Associate degrees in Social Science, Science and Mathematics, arts and human expressions, social behavior and self-development."

I seriously can't tell what the five degrees are from that list. And most seem junk anyway.

Most impressive is the fact he was born at 27 weeks!

That allowed him to start schooling earlier! You don’t earn five associates degrees in silly subjects by sitting there in the womb until term!

I guess you can do a lot of degrees with chapgpt and 27 weeks these days

Looks like he got an early start!

while very impressive i would never trade going through the college experience with people my age for any advanced degree or study. that’s worth a lot more to me that the diploma

So true. My college diploma is worthless to me, it's in the basement somewhere. What is very valuable to me is the experience.

I am sure it helped when looking for a job, no? You sometimes see this a lot where someone says their colleges degree was useless, but it was still helpful for getting that much needed foot in the door.

Boeing recruited at Caltech, so while whether I actually received the degree or not never came up with them, I suppose it did matter for that particular first job.

However, there were several other positions at the time I could have gotten without without the degree. (I had worked with tech shops in the area, and some of my friends were creating startups.)

Also, while at Boeing, I was invited to join the Stress team, and the offer included waiving the requirement of a Master's Degree.

Microsoft declined to interview me because I didn't have a CS degree. Missed out on a few $billions there :-)

Maybe you're right about the getting the foot in the door, but in 14 years of work and 4 countries nobody ever asked me for my degree (I have a Masters). The only ones that cared were immigration.

What should he be doing during the intervening ~6 years though? Just force himself to stop studying? Or study on his own and then be stuck bored to death when he finally goes to university and has to repeat courses?

Yeah, he's going to have a lot of regrets later on socially. But these type of kids would fit in a traditional school anyway so maybe its for the best.

Oddities of human capability exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Heinrich_Heineken

Christian Heinrich Heineken or Heinecken (February 6, 1721 – June 27, 1725), also known as "the infant scholar of Lübeck", was a German child prodigy who lived only to the age of four.

It looks like he picked up 4 associate degrees from Interdisciplinary Studies [0] and then a separate History Associate in Arts Degree. (Unless there's another Associates degree in History that I'm missing).

And he did this in the space of 3 years.

Each associate degree requires 18 units (credits). I'm guessing that there's some overlap, so he might not have needed a full 90 units to pick up all 5 degrees.

That means he would've needed to take at most 10 courses per year.

Does anyone want to figure out the minimum possible units required? ;)

[0] https://catalog.nocccd.edu/fullerton-college/degrees-certifi... [1] https://catalog.nocccd.edu/fullerton-college/degrees-certifi...

Just curious how many units did he complete to have 5 of these degrees? I'd like to know the breakdown of classes he took etc to achieve this. Quite impressive for a 12 year old.

I certainly was in the camp that late in highschool I took some classes at the local junior college and I really wish I had just taken more classes there that could have carried over to my 4 year college.

Associates degrees.

You're right.

> Associates degree in History, Associates degrees in Science, Associate degrees in Social Science, Science and Mathematics, arts and human expressions, social behavior and self-development

"Science" and "Science and Math" make me suspicious of their value and difficulty because they're so generic, and the humanities degrees likely have a lot of overlapping courses.

Plus it's at a CSU.

For a 12-year-old, it's still an accomplishment, but this wouldn't add up to a bachelors at a UC.

Community college, not CSU. His community college is a feeder college though, so many students there would be looking to transfer into UCs, not CSUs.

Ah. You're right.

Here’s the thing: I’m 35 and don’t even have one of those.

Having any degree at 12 is impressive. Hell even a high school degree would be impressive at that age.

Whats an Accossicate Degree?

It's a 2-year degree, but beyond that it's unclear.

An associates could be a blue collar trade - welding, carpentry, etc. It can also result in a paraprofessional certification - nursing, CAD, etc.

Some students get associates in things like "liberal arts" so they can get general credits out of the way and spend two years at a (more expensive) 4 year school.

They can also specialize and put that towards a 4 year degree.

There's a military college that offers an associates degree in military science. When combined with enrollment in ROTC (Reserve Officer Training Corps) it results in commissioning as a Second Liutentant in the US Army.

So it's pretty much any 2-year degree. Much more flexibility in what that means than with other degrees.

Typically it takes 2 years instead of the 4 a bachelor's degree would take

Just goes to show how much you can accomplish when you are focused on schooling, instead drinking and chasing skirts

You were a much wilder 12 year old than I was . . .

This is impressive and cool, but I have to wonder what I would do with my own children if I ever have them.

I’d want them to want to do college as early as possible, because frankly I found middle and high school to be a wildly massive waste of time and effort. That said, college has a tendency to focus on busy work and less on learning and retaining information. It’s a useful heuristic for determining ability to get work done, but it’s pretty inefficient for learning.

The biggest risk here is focusing on getting brass rings that are social signals instead of true accomplishments. I’d want my own kids to learn the value of working, and I’d much rather they have a job from an early age instead of a degree.

Must me nice having the opportunity. I was stuck in a rural school without other options relearning the same content every 2–3 years for no reason with no budget for the special needs kids listed as “gifted”.

And the teachers wonder why you 'are so bored'.

I was too busy being in various forms of ‘time out’ for ‘acting up’ out of boredom to be in class enough. Eventually I just gave up by age 11 and just doodled in the back of the room knowing there was nothing I could do to change my situation.

At least now he can get 5 jobs in fast food. (J/K, I passed high school math at 11, the young genii alway get bullied)

Headline is wrong. He didn’t graduate from college, he earned associate’s degrees which makes him still an undergraduate.

This really illustrates how pointless a large number of college degrees have become.

Well at 12 years old I was able to center a <div> using only CSS.

I’m decently successful, but this still makes me just straight up judge myself and not in a good way.

I’d love to have a conversation with the kid just to try and get a glimpse of how his mind works.

Maybe you should hesitate a little before judging. How exactly are you quantifying success? I'm not sure that # of degrees means much, especially when it's obvious that this kid (or his parents) were trying to optimize that number, rather than optimizing other things, such as a meaningful childhood.

He most likely doesn't know. I predict there's no agency and the parents just dictate everything for him.

What's 12yo has that level of agency?

Don't beat yourself up. He doesn't have responsibility or bills to pay

Little Man Tate

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