Disney cancels plans to relocate 2,000 jobs to Florida
reuters.com
reuters.com
If my house is underwater fiscally, it may as well be underwater with the fishes.
> My thesis is it's not going anywhere in the next 100 years and that the prices will only continue to rise.
I don't think you've looked at a graph for the last 50 years. In the end, they will probably rise if just because of inflation. The question is will it outpace inflation or crash. Frankly, the job market in FL isn't great for techies (although I interned for IBM at Boca Raton in 1995), so I haven't really looked into it.
They’ve got a pretty, pretty big sunk cost in the state, so it’s not like they’re going to pick up and move, but it seems like it would be a pretty poor use of company resources to spend more than necessary in Florida right now.
Disney have a broader problem - they are not the only player in central Florida. Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World is the most attended theme park in the world… but Universal just down the road hold the number 2 and 3 slots.
Yes, WDW is the most attended group of parks on the planet, but Universal are on an epic roll and have a 3rd Florida gate under construction.
It’s not just that Disney can’t pack up WDW and move it to a state friendlier to them. They can’t pack up the critical mass of demand drawn to central Florida either - replicating that elsewhere would take decades.
I don’t think that the Florida legislature are that worried about whether Disney will create however many thousand jobs. They know full well the central Florida tourism market is a juggernaut that’s not slowing down anytime soon and that Disney will maximise their presence in this market regardless of the political climate.
Keeping some corporate and creative jobs in California instead of relocating them to Florida is fairly small fry in that context.
It wouldn’t be the same, with all of WDW’s history, direct involvement of Walt and Roy Disney, weird systems (underground garbage vacuum service, etc). But America has a lot of unoccupied land, and most states would be happy to give Disney significant leeway in exchange for long-term guaranteed taxes, jobs, and tourism.
One thing is certain: the next FL governor after DeSantis will have a gigantic mess to clean up.
Perhaps we should all be buying in Alaska, however, given that it will soon be the next mild climate tropical destination :).
The massive plan to expand the Anaheim park drops on the same day.
https://www.foxla.com/news/disneyland-forward-disney-anaheim...
Weird that people like theme parks, yeah.
Besides, reading the actual plans it's pretty clear that Disneyland Forward is more about repurposing and optimizing their current space rather than a "massive expansion" as you call it. Really feels like you're just making up a situation in order to "both sides" the issue.
In practice, this would about double the size of the current park (The detailed drawing represent the new areas, which are currently parking lots)
I guess we disagree on whether 2x is “massive”?
I think very few Californians are against converting surface parking into workplaces.
I'm also unclear how this is 'culture war'? Could you expand on that?
Background: https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/49663329-trading-places-r...
https://reason.com/2023/05/16/ron-desantis-confirms-again-th...
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Florida#:~:....
Disney is the second largest employer in the state. Pays the state over $1billion in taxes, of the state's $100billion budget [1]. And has over 50 million anual visitor's in its Florida parks in a (pre pandemic) year; which is more than twice Florida's population [2], and about a third of their anual tourists [3].
If I were a politician, this is not a fight I would want to take on.
[0] https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/data-download/enormou...
[1] https://www.floridapolicy.org/posts/florida-house-and-senate...
[2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/FL
[3] https://www.cbsnews.com/miami/news/florida-tourism-hits-reco...
Now they’re tacking hard right on social issues, threatening to cripple our quite good public university systems, and trying to strip local governments of any meaningful self determination.
Joke’s on me I guess, since I’m most likely not going to move my family, so looks like I’m gonna just bend over and take it. But it feels like we’re in the process of actively destroying our future and any remaining attraction for dynamic folks who might consider relocating or starting businesses here.
Now? We're moving to a blue state, and don't consider it optional. Republicans got weirder after Palin, but have gone batshit crazy post-Trump. They're coming for schools & teachers. They're coming for libraries. My daughters might not be able to get medical care they need, as they get older (and no, not just abortions—my wife's gone through miscarriages and other issues that she'd have had to go out-of-state to treat under current laws, and has never had an abortion). God-for-fucking-bid any of my kids end up being LGBT and have to see their state governor working hard to make their lives worse.
It's gone from a tolerable, if not ideal, situation I'd intended to stick out indefinitely and had been living with relatively contentedly for decades, to plainly intolerable, in a hurry. Way too much risk in sticking around.
[EDIT] I don't mean that as criticism of your probably sticking around, to be clear. If our situation were different, we might too (or might not really have a choice).
Some of that stuff was already troublesome to access because providers were wary of running into existing abortion regulations (Roe, especially after modification by Casey, did not absolutely guarantee abortion rights through all of pregnancy—not even close) and a lot of hospitals have religious affiliations and are allowed to limit care based on the beliefs of those religions (despite potentially being the only option in a large area because of guarantees & licenses from the government, which, you know, makes it entirely insane that they're allowed to do that). We ran into some of that, it really sucked, and it'd be a ton worse now, and (I'm pretty sure) we're not even in the worst state as far as that goes.
[EDIT] But, notably, despite not having things as bad as a couple other states, the state's solidly "red", so at risk of shifting to an even more restrictive stance at any time now that we don't even have the very-limited protections of Roe.
DeSantis, for the most part, was your typical classic GOP governor in his first term. Florida is usually a red/blue state that leans a little red. They really went off the rails his second term though.
It's entirely cold political machinations. It's not ideology, it's not deeply-held beliefs, it's not a philosophy, it's not him (and others like him) doing what they think is best: it's strategy, aimed squarely at electoral success. They might get it wrong, maybe it'll backfire, but that's what it is. Stances on issues are merely more kayfabe crap to the ones who are all-in on the whole thing just being a game to play & win. Their "concerns" are often transparently and publicly manufactured—seriously, it's nuts how in-the-open a lot of this is—to drive their voters to the polls.
He changed, because some advisors, consultants, and probably donors whom he trusts & relies on, told him to.
Too bad all this hurts a bunch of people in the process.
Electoral success? I've been wondering if the DeSantis and Trump (and most of the Republican Party) have been chasing a local maxima as of late.
The republicans have been pursuing wedge politics, well, since, forever, but primarily since the 1960's when they Nixon's/Reagan's "hippy punching" found success. The problem is that it only works when you can keep the majority. Every wedge issue slices of x% of people, whether it's Librarians, Teachers, LGBTQ+ issues, etc. It works great until you've wedged off more who would vote against you than for you in a general election.
Then if you're at that local maxima, then yeah you're gonna cater to those fringe elements because those are the only votes that are left you can get. You've burnt the bridge with the rest of the electorate.
The way election strategy works can sometimes be unintuitive.
1) Not every demographic votes at the same rate—the "youth vote", which is a lot of people, famously, barely matters. "But they won it for Obama in '08!"; firstly, no, actually, he'd have lost a couple states without them but still would have won; secondly it still wasn't all that good; and thirdly it promptly plummeted again, there was no staying-power.
2) "Off-cycle" elections tend to be ignored by moderates and have low overall turnout.
3) Primaries are A Thing, and you have to win the nomination (determined almost exclusively by committed members of your own party) before you can even attempt the general.
4) The "true swing" segment of voters—the ones that both claim not to be committed partisans, and also don't consistently vote exactly as if they were committed partisans (that is, aren't lying or deceiving themselves when they say they're swing voters)—is itty-bitty, and they are practically all, in the language of political science, "low information voters" (and, yes, you can just treat that as a euphemism for "morons"). There's less to gain from directly courting them than one might think, and courting them doesn't necessarily involve, like... good policies. Or even being connected to reality. Even more than other aspects of campaigning, it's mostly about name recognition, good acting, and marketing.
What does all that mean? The name of the game is GOTV (Get Out The Vote). And suppressing same for your opponent. You don't ignore everything else, exactly, but the person who gets more of "their people" to the polls is very likely to be the one who wins, not the one who sways fence-sitters. Notably, achieving this doesn't necessarily require targeting even all of your own party.
> Every wedge issue slices of x% of people
Some are immensely effective. I listened to way too much of NPR's post-2016 "holy shit, how did this happen?" interview series with Trump voters, and, over and over, people said "yeah, he sucks, but I prayed on it and stopping baby-murder was more important". That single issue is a giant GOTV driver and excuse to do whatever the fuck else they want with their policies, for Republicans. I haven't looked into the data, but wouldn't be a bit surprised if their pro-life stance is a lot more effective, by those measures, than the Democrats' contrary stance.
> DeSantis and Trump (and most of the Republican Party) have been chasing a local maxima as of late
Trump's campaign was revolutionary. The way he built his platform was exactly like he'd walked into a rural diner, struck up political conversations, wrote down all the ideas he heard, then just said those things. This is, it should be noted, a lot different from the usual Republican platform (this is likely why they didn't bother to assemble an official party platform, as they usually do—they didn't want to codify his in any way, but also couldn't contradict it). The reason the normal platform can differ so very much from what their voters want, is because of how US elections are structured (the two-party system) which strongly tends to produce situations like that. Trump just said "yeah, fuck all that" and said exactly what Republicans wanted to hear.
The rest of the party is still trying to figure out what that means for future elections, and the future of the party. DeSantis' whole mess is part of that effort, I expect.
A corporation knows a lot better than that. Decisions are driven by profits, and profits alone, and neither Disney nor DeSantis would keep going too long in this game of chicken. Disney needs Florida and Florida badly wants Disney.
Florida is still a huge supporter of Disney's business despite the politics. Disney is simply following what every other major company is doing right now: cutting back expansion plans, reducing major expenses (such as building a campus and moving thousands of people there) as their stock is really nothing to write home about right now. AND using this as a convenient excuse for what they are doing due to economic, not political reasons.
If Disney could recoup the relocation investment in the next quarter, it would absolutely do it irrespective of the recent fighting.
Compare that to states such as California (-1.3% [2]) and New York (-2.6% [3]) for the same period.
Seems like more people like what DeSantis and Florida have been doing overall.
[1] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/FL/PST045222
[2] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/CA/PST045222
[3] https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/NY/PST045222
>between April 2020 and July 2022
It takes a long time to destroy a city or a state. It won't necessarily be the entirety of Florida but Orlando's economy is pretty Disney centric and might take a pretty big hit if Disney divests over the next 20 years. Will it be Detroit levels? Who knows.
Also, there are term limits, so DeStantis is out in 2026 either way. Disney just has to wait it out a couple more years.