Comment by mmh0000 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by mmh0000 | Hacker News Reader

Parent Full thread

So, I avoided VPNs for years because they had no practical benefit. I live in Utah, and I would consider myself very technically adept. Previously, I didn't like "VPNs" because now I'm just routing all my traffic through another untrusted 3rd party. It's like choosing between two evils, would I prefer my ISP knows where I go, or some rando that I also have to pay? Worse, the "rando" (usually) requires a VPN app which could get up to all sorts of fuckery. So. yada yada yada.

Well, then, two things happened back-to-back. The VPN provider Mullvad was unsuccessfully raided, and Utah passed hyper-totalitarian laws. On the recent PR news, I investigated Mullval, and... they're fantastic. You don't have to use their app; they support straight openvpn or wireguard and are Linux native. AND I can pay them in BTC, further obscuring myself.

Because of Utah's law, the vast majority of my traffic is now directed over a VPN. I don't even really go to porn sites all that often. It's more the principle of it.

The more the state pushes to limit and remove freedoms, the more I will do everything in my power to push the other way. It's the Hacker Mindset =D

> AND I can pay them in BTC, further obscuring myself.

Which is not really impressive since BTC can be tracked. What is impressive, however, is you can just mail them cash with a piece of paper with your account number on it and they will add that money as credit on your account.

BTC can be tracked by default. But, with a little effort, it cannot be.

You can either by BTC locally from an anonymous source, use a coin tumbler, or, in the BTC world you can do CoinJoins[1]

[1] https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/CoinJoin

I generally have the same thought process (rather go through ISP than VPN) but one angle of this thought that I've struggled with is: what makes my ISP any less of a rando than the VPN that I choose? At least I have more choices with my VPN than with my ISP...

...but I still haven't bitten the bullet on a VPN yet.

Running your own VPN server in the cloud in whatever jurisdiction you find the most appealing is also an option.

The problem is your ISP is bound to your physical location and is forced to obey the laws in that jurisdiction in order to continue operating there. The VPN provider, especially one in another country, has no such concerns. In mmh0000's case, they're in Utah and don't wish to follow Utah's laws. Thus it's that the VPN being able to be a rando, and the ISP being very much not is central to using a VPN over having to trust the ISP, which very much knows exactly where you live.

See also: Monty Hall problem

What’s your threshold for leaving the state?

> and Utah passed hyper-totalitarian laws

I haven't actually seen anything about a Utah law yet, only the Montana ban of TikTok. What exactly does "hyper-totalitarian" mean compared to totalitarian, and what was the Utah law passed recently?

Utah has passed a law that requires age verification to view porn: https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/utah-law-requiring-porn-...

Oh right, I remember seeing something about that now.

Guess I was expecting something a bit worse, I don't see how online age requirements will help but it doesn't land as "hyper-totalitarian" to me either. Feels like a less enforcement version of age limits on buying alcohol or cigarettes - a hit on personal freedoms but can't say I've ever heard those labeled as totalitarian.

You could very reasonably call it authoritarian, but it objectively isn't totalitarian. Words tend to lose meaning in conversations like this.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com