Atlanta's Boot Girls are challenging the car booting industry | Hacker News Reader

Atlanta's Boot Girls are challenging the car booting industry

npr.org

78 pointsevo_938 comments

> While "it is not illegal to own a boot key," the Atlanta Police wrote, the use of a boot key to modify, tamper or disengage a booting device from a vehicle could result in a variety of charges, such as criminal trespass, theft of services, theft by taking or second-degree property damage.

Easy for them to say that (and make initial arrest), but hard to see how any of it sticks if you don't take the boot.

it's bizarre that any legal theory could consider criminal charges with this as the justification, without also putting the boot-er in jeopardy for the exact same thing.

Its perhaps bizarre that the law in certain jurisdictions explicitly licenses booting for private parking enforcement, but its not really a bizarre legal theory that a general prohibition doesn’t apply to circumstances explicitly excepted from it.

> Easy for them to say that (and make initial arrest), but hard to see how any of it sticks if you don't take the boot.

Criminal trespass and property damage don’t require taking anything, and I assume the theft by taking is of the lawfully-seized vehicle, not the boot.

Is the vehicle seized? In a legal sense? The Atlanta ordinance just says you can boot it, presumably as an inconvenience, but it's like the car becomes yours.

http://atlanta.elaws.us/code/coor_ptii_ch162_artv_sec162-261

There may be some context I'm missing, but the Supreme Court seemed kinda down on the inherent right to seize in general. You may apply the boot, only where permitted, so that seems in contrast to general right to seize trasspassers.

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/there-is-no-common-law-rig...

The theft of services I could see, but against the car owner, not the unlocker.

> I assume the theft by taking is of the lawfully-seized vehicle, not the boot

They appear to be removing boots placed by "private parking enforcement companies." Not the police. To the extent there is enabling statute, it's at the level of local government.

Parking violations on private property should be a civil dispute. (Or get it towed.) Georgia's chief justice said it best: "It is a crazy thing to sanity y the normal cure for an unauthorized entry on your property is to insist that the trespasser remain on your property."

For people who have never lived in Atlanta, the booting situation is ridiculous there. You can get booted even if you were parked in a spot legitimately - they’re over eager.

Police don’t care. Reading this article made me happy.

Being from the Uk this headline had a completely different connotation. I’m very disappointed it’s not actually about car boot sales.

Indeed; this article is about what we might refer to in Britain as 'car clamping'.

As an ordinary American, naturally I speak zero languages fluently.

But I have always thought it was quite sensible to have the boot at the opposite end from the bonnet.

Strangely, Americans kept the head part with “hood”, but not the foot part.

The spirit of Angle Grinder Man lives on!

https://www.geekextreme.com/angle-grinder-man/

I've long wondered if those vibratory cutters common in catalytic converter thefts would work on car clamps.

Having a set of keys is likely easier still. (or a pen cap, if those tube locks are as cheap as I imagine)

you mean a reciprocating saw?

I assume they mean something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01E73VU36

I don't think that would cut through exhaust pipe very fast

Certainly not as quickly as a traditional saw, but I think noise level is the more important factor. They do have extensions for cutting through metal (steel) like this: https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Starlock-Oscillating-Multi-Tool...

Have you ever used an oscillating multi tool? I can't turn mine on without hearing protection.

Good on them.

Those metal brackets are legal extortion and utter BS.

At least these women are fighting back against it, and I don't begrudge them making some money by undercutting the actual blackmailers.

Although I fear it isn't long until law enforcement hires them just as a trap to arrest them.

FTA, it isn't LE booting the cars, but private parking enforcers hired by the lot owners.

I read the commenter's point to be that eventually the private enforcers will go to LE to try and get them arrested. I won't opine on who the Atlanta PD is more likely to side with in that scenario.

> I read the commenter's point to be that eventually the private enforcers will go to LE to try and get them arrested.

That was exactly my point.

Even worse, it’s usually third parties paying lot owners a percent of their take.

It’s kind of weird how it’s set up and I hate every single boot placer. At least tow companies are regulated and have to post information. Getting towed sucks but the point isn’t revenue, but to clear spots.

Booting is strange as they want to boot as many people as possible. There’s a lot in Atlanta that is private property and doesn’t allow or charge for parking. They boot your car immediately as you park and then threaten to damage your car unless you pay cash. And they do that as many times as they can. After falling victim, I flagged a car to stop them from parking and the boot operator yelled at me and keyed my car (after getting $85 from me to unboot).

Any city that allows booting is a real jerk city.

Can you share the location?

I don’t remember the exact location as it was many years ago but I think it was an unused business lot downtown near Luckie street before they put in the ferris wheel or in midtown near cypress street in a bank parking lot.

I had no idea this was a thing. A private party can just go up to someone's car, lock an immobilizer on it, and then hold that property ransom until the owner pays money. And this is not only legal, but apparently a cottage industry in these cities. Only in America.

In Houston it's common for towing companies to make deals with managers of apartment complexes to allow them to independently tow vehicles which are not considered fully compliant with some newly added terms the residents are informed about by issuing a memo.

Memo crafted by the single "authorized" towing company in addition to strategically placing warning signs only on the limited number of spaces where non-resident visitors are actually allowed to park.

Towing company given a gate pass especially intended for after-hours use on their own to scout for victims when everyone is asleep and more cars are present, especially in complexes where there is no shortage of spaces, without warning, and at times when there has been no complaint from law enforcement, residents or managers.

I can only imagine there is some hidden compensation to the agreeing manager, perhaps per vehicle, and once that manager moves on, the agreement remains with no undue compensation for future managers unaware that the shady situation was not known to, or initiated by, the actual complex owner's policies.

It’s extortion, really. Like the article says, even legally it’s dubious: “You’re trespassing on my property! You’re not welcome here, so I will… immobilize your car so you can stay here longer”

I'm somewhat surprised this guy is still alive.

The use keys that don't damage the boot, so it can be reused?

They are clearly in the booting business; they are protecting the boots so that they can make more money from more cars being booted.

Someone actually challenging the boot industry rather than colluding with it would use an angle grinder to destroy boots, so that they are forced to buy new boots without making any income.

That would take longer and create a destruction of property charge probably others as well.

The article talks about a website charging $50+ per key. That's a sweet markup consider a quick online search shows a locksmith that will cut keys in bulk to whatever bitting for $3/key.

Perhaps a pricing lesson there that in some markets 'slightly less than the alternative' is better than cost-plus. The real winner seems to be the service provider charging full equipment cost for each transaction.

It’s also more about not wanting to pay the smarmy pieces of shit who booted you than just the price. This way you feel like you’re hurting them.

Oh, boot = those immobilizing devices that police put on parked cars when fines are owed. I imagined one of those damn touch screen cars popping a notification while you were driving, saying to pull over while the car rebooted itself.

It's incredibly stupid of them to participate in this interview/article.

They probably could've operated under-the-radar for a while but now they have a target on their backs. The FBI, IRS, etc. can make their lives a living hell.

As an aside, IMO, the real criminals here are the municipalities and private companies that engage in this public nuisance.

> They probably could've operated under-the-radar for a while but now they have a target on their backs.

They have 85k followers on IG/TT, recruiting, starting a podcast, and are putting out a merch line. They were never trying to fly under-the-radar.

Regardless, I think the most they'd get is a slap on the wrist. Why bother prosecuting a couple of popular public "heroes" over this? Especially if civil booting is likely to be banned in 2024 with a bipartisan vote.

> Why bother prosecuting a couple of popular public "heroes" over this?

Any prosecutor not savvy enough to realize charging these women is tantamount to handing them public office does not deserve their job. Pushing back on tedious traffic enforcement has national bipartisan appeal.

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