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Comment by gamesbrainiac | Hacker News Reader

This is dystopian. Something like this would be illegal in the EU.

As a former employee of some of the largest European corporations I can assure you they usually operate way pass legal boundaries. The absolute worst that can happen to them is to get fined, which is not enough deterrent as usually the fines eat a tiny portion of their profits. No one goes to jail either, a major corruption scandal may send a CEO on early retirement with a full compensation package and/or to work for a competitor. So assuming European companies won't spy on employees just because it is illegal is pretty naive. Always assume you are being monitored by your employer, because more likely than not you are.

The ECB require it for banks in the EU. As does the PRA in the UK and the FRB in the US.

What is the actual requirement?

There are multiple but the main one is that all communication related to the activity of the bank needs to be recorded and be auditable. There are limitations for expediency. For example, only phone calls with customers or peer organisations are usually recorded. Most phone calls aren't as it's very expensive and not massively useful (although AI may change the calculus on usefulness). But all email, IM, BBG chats etc are recorded.

And it's as pervasive as it is primarily because of the scandals of the credit crunch. Similar controls existed before then but they were less pervasive and not as strictly enforced.

But that's more on the 'communications' side rather than general monitoring of the worker (if the mouse is moving, etc)

> There are multiple but the main one is that all communication related to the activity of the bank needs to be recorded and be auditable.

That’s very different from constantly recording audio and video of the employee which is what the grandparent described as dystopian. I’d also argue the focus here is on audits / transparency, rather than employee productivity.

Don't let facts get in the way of euro exceptionalism.

Can I have a citation?

What is “it” exactly? What does the ECB require, for example? There were a few things listed so it’s not clear what you mean here.

No it does not. It requires all formal communications to be recorded, but nothing else. No WADU.

Looking at badging data?

The FAANGs do this for the EU employees...

Why do you think the EU would make it illegal to see who badges into secure buildings?

It’s illegal for an EU employer to use badge data for HR purposes, it can only be accessed by security, and only if there is an incident

How do hourly employees clock in? Isn't that the same as "badging in" for an HR function?

sorry i should have clarified that this was for employees who aren't on a strict hourly contract.

Any workers council, and union, I onow woupd slap managers backsidesnfrom here to Mars and bavknforbthat. Before, during and after suing said employer to death. With basically a guaranteed win at any labour court.

Since everybody knows that, only the most sketchy employers consider something along these lines. Again one ofnthe reasons I am really happy with my job and the country I have it in.

This is a perfect example (finally) of why even white collar workers need unions. Yes, even you in finance. Yes, even you in software engineering. It’s not just about pay!

There are perfectly good reasons for having unions in finance. This is definitely not one of them.

The heavy monitoring of communications, access etc is mandated by regulators primarily for the protection of customers. There's zero chance a union, or any other body below government, will get them to change that. I doubt they'd even try and nor should they.

Monitoring of workplace comms is fine and legal, ditto for access logs; (taking this post at face value) monitoring of facial expressions, undisclosed webcam and microphone monitoring at home, abusing access to workers’ personal phones, and feeding all this in to a black box for a score that your manager basically pinky swears to not use as part of your review is not okay.

I agree. I wasn't responding to the original post, I was responding to a comment about monitoring.

I also don't believe for a second that JPM are doing what the original post is saying they're doing in regard to private devices. It would be astonishingly expensive and illegal in some jurisdictions. And thousands of people would need to know, in detail, for it to be useful so wouldn't just have come out in a subreddit. It would be widely known in the industry (and it isn't).

The point would be to stop them peeking for other reasons.

Unions can do whatever they want. The rules are different. Sort of how the FBI meets with leaders of a terrorist militia to negotiate because they are afraid of a shootout (it's called "power"). An individual would just be arrested.

Any union of citizens will have power.

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