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Comment by adastra22 | Hacker News Reader

My kids don’t have phones. They are the only ones among their peers who don’t have a phone. I told them they can get one when they write an app and get it listed on the App Store, not before.

Most people I tell this to are impressed. The only time I got crucified was the last time I mentioned it on HN. This seems to be a particular bone to pick that HN users have.

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Why an app? Doesn't seem terribly related, it's not like writing an app signals any sort of maturity. Maybe having them read Kant might be better, or...maybe just don't give them an out, be firm in the totality of the ban, lean into it without illusions.

Well she (the oldest) already expressed an interest in coding, so that was part of it. But the general idea is to make the compute device into a creative tool a that be how she gets her start using it, rather than have it initially be just a social media interface.

When I was growing up I played a ton of video games. I got started coding because I wanted to make video games. But as soon as I started coding, the video games suddenly became less interesting. I’m hoping a similar transition occurs with her, and that would be the indication she is mature enough to use the device as a tool to achieve things rather than a passive input channel for media.

I feel like this is a bit unusual: "I told them they can get one when they write an app"

Why are you insisting that they publish an app on the app store, are they keenly interested in software development or something?

In Germany you cannot drive until you demonstrate the ability to perform CPR. Are prospective automobile owners keenly interested in first aid or something?

Nice username btw.

Yes, she already independently expressed an interest. She’s being doing Swift Playground and Girls Who Code summer camps even before this.

I won't quibble about the bar of "write an app"—presumably that's something you'd be able to help them with.

I really like the idea of helping kids see computers/phones as tools for creation and exploration, rather than entertainment boxes. I personally feel like the danger for most kids with computers/smart phones/etc. is the addictive entertainment aspect, not as a thing in and of itself.

How would they have any kind of interest in making an app without an interest garnered by using the device?

My interest in technology was garnered from getting a device then wanting to do more with it.

She has a Chromebook from school, and she uses my phone and tablet with permission and supervision. She just needs to demonstrate a certain level of capability and maturity to have her own device(s).

My oldest got a phone this year, the real issue is that we need to communicate with her when she goes to a friend's place, soccer practice, and so on. Primarily for safety reasons.

I imagine for most people their children will reach an age where they are more autonomous and require a phone for safety well before the kiddos are writing iOS applications.

Of course when I was a teen (or even younger) I went to a friend's place, practice, school, work, etc. without a constant electronic tether back to my parents.

they still make regular cell phones, flip phones where the internet is hard to use

I got my older kids apple watches set up in family/parent/whatever mode for this. They have cell modems (requirement for family setup, they're $5/mo each on my t-mobile plan), can send and receive texts, can send and receive phone calls.

If you don't want to use apple watches because of their ridiculously poor battery life (fair criticism; I have trouble remembering to charge mine regularly, so getting the kids to do so regularly isn't easy), you can find used/old iphones lying around for pretty cheap, and Apple Configurator lets you put a pretty tight policy on them. You can set it up so that the profile can’t be removed without a password. I think you can even set it up so it has wifi credentials preloaded and so that the user can’t add other wifi networks, and that you can preload contacts and prevent the user from calling/texting numbers that aren’t in the contacts (I don't think you can prevent them from answering calls / receiving texts from numbers not in their contacts, though).

I have an old iphone with such a profile that only has the Phone app, Messages app, and FaceTime. It doesn’t have the app store and as far as I know there’s no way to install or sideload apps.

This is what I did. She has an Apple Watch which she can use to call or message us. Battery life is an issue, but we’ve instilled the habit of charging overnight every night.

How are they suppose to write an app when they have no phone?

And which AppStore? Apple, Google, Sourceforge?

The App Store.

> How are they suppose to write an app when they have no phone?

Android and iOS both have emulators. React native/expo can run in browser, etc.

> And which AppStore? Apple, Google, Sourceforge?

Seems like that's missing the point

I wrote my first Android apps using an emulator. Then used the proceeds from selling those apps to buy my first Android device and a better computer.

(Doesn't mean that they have to, of course. Just that it's possible.)

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