Hacker News Reader

Comment by gravitronic | Hacker News Reader

I've been through it once before I even realized what was happening.

They didn't tell me "you are now being subjected to the new millimeter wave scanner" or offer me the choice of a pat-down, they just pointed and herded my fiancee and I through the machine without any mention of what it was or that I had a choice to not go through it.

It was only after that I realized it was the new scanner I had just gone through, and I only realized that because I read sites like HN.

So, to other travellers: when you've opted-out did you basically have to halt in your tracks and demand an opt-out? I guess I naively thought opting out would be more obvious... but I was wrong.

View on HN

I usually try to play it cool until the moment the point me toward the radiation machine. Then I say "I'd like to opt-out". They are always very professional about it, and have a procedure (different in different airports) where you basically stand there and watch other poor suckers go through the machine, until they find someone to pat you down.

The reason I play it cool is because about 1/3 of the time they end up pointing me toward the regular metal detector at the last minute (I guess I'm not a cute girl...)

I always opt-out, and it's never been a civil affair.

The _least_ obnoxious was when the TSA agent heard my "I'd like to opt out" message, shouted "REFUSAL", made me stand _next_ to the scanner for approximately 15 minutes before finding someone who could pat me down, occasionally glaring at me for effect.

The pat-down was respectful, though it was done inches away from my 9 year old daughter, but the core of the issue, to me anyway, is that I object to both the new scanners AND the pat-down.

I've adopted an "only fly when I have to" policy, which meant 6 hour drives replaced flights to New York, but there is regrettably no way of avoiding all my business travel in lieu of driving.

I was raised by lawyers, and I think from that I learned how to present myself in a way that is both courteous and has a subtext of "the paperwork involved in fucking with me will crush you." The easy to articulate bits of this include good posture, eye-contact and precise diction. There's probably more to it than that which I'm unaware of. This also seems to work when I get pulled over.

@jchrisa, If you don't mind, please could you let know how to politely convey the subtext etc.? Thanks.

Wish I could help more -- I think if you appear deferrential to the law (more so than the officer), it helps remind the law enforcement officer that they are also subject to the law.

I fly frequently and always opt-out. My standard response is to wait until I am pointed towards the AIT scanner, then say "Respectfully I choose to opt out." Jchrisa is right, there is no reason not to be courteous, and there is a better way to handle yourself than to be grumpy or annoying.

Sometimes they do yell out "Opt Out" loudly, but I don't mind because it alerts someone to come pat me down, and when the security is short-staffed sometimes the wait can be a bit.

For the record, I've never been discourteous. While I might loath their professions, I do understand that they're just doing their jobs, and I respect and appreciate that.

Also, to jchrisa's point, I can't imagine what, if anything, I might be doing to foster negativity. I'm a professional white male. I sometimes travel in suits, which may set off some innate animosity, but I've experienced the same negativity dressed in plain clothes.

I've often been described as "friendly-looking" and "approachable", and am careful to ensure that my demeanor isn't in any way offputting while I'm at the airport.

I'm not saying that I'm the nicest guy in the world or anything, but it genuinely surprised me to hear that other people who opt out don't share my experience.

Basically, yes. It's very easy to end up herded through unless you're paying attention. Now I watch carefully and see which lines are going through the big scanner and which are going through the smaller metal detector. Most of the time, I can just get in the metal detector line, no muss no fuss.

However, when it is unavoidable (happens at smaller airports when there are fewer lines in my experience), I just stop in front of it and say in my most polite sweet little thing voice "no thank you" or "I don't want to go through the radiation scanner" when I'm told go through it. I've had people try and tell me it's safe and (gently?) badger me into doing it (at which point sometimes I try and offer a reason, but mostly I just say "I don't care"), but every time I've been on my toes enough to refuse, I've gotten the patdown instead. The TSA folks have sometimes gotten kinda freaked out/uptight or antsy, but it generally blows over pretty quickly and 80% of the time doesn't take much longer than the regular screening. The rest of the time, it takes them 15 minutes to find another lady agent to do the patdown, so I always start through security a little sooner if I can't see separate lines for a metal detector-only screening.

I also refuse to go to the 'private' screening area. If they're going to grope me, I'd rather it be in public in full view of everyone else.

If anyone ever tells you the scanners are "safe," you need only mention (innocently and with utmost politeness, of course) that they have been banned in the European Union over health concerns.(1)

(1)http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2011/11/15/europe-b...

That's for the X-ray backscatter scanners; millimeter-wave scanners are in common use in the US as well, and are safe as far as we know.

"as far as we know"

Is there good, unbiased evidence of that? I don't trust the manufacturers nor the government, but I also don't believe because electromagnet waves are involved, it is inherently toxic.

X-rays have enough energy to break molecular bonds in your body (ionizing radiation), millimeter waves do not.

Is there a way, at a glance, to recognize x-ray vs millimeter machines?

Even if there is, I'm guessing it would be hard to tell at a glance whether the machine was calibrated by someone with a physics degree or someone who'd be delivering pizzas if it weren't for the growth of the security industry.

In the US, the backscatter x-ray machines are two giant ugly blue boxes that you stand between. The mm wave machines are more futuristic-looking, white cylinders that you stand inside of. (photos here http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-issue...)

The technology deployment is airport-specific, so you will only find one or the other at any given airport, e.g. O'Hare uses Backscatter, Midway uses mm wave.

La Guardia is the one airport serving a major US city that does not have any of the new scanners, which can be nice if you typically opt-out.

Thank you, this is very useful.

I can in no way substantiate this, but the xray ones are usually two large (maybe always blue?) mostly rectangular blocks that you stand in between. The millimeter machines are usually rounder and have clear bits. The illustrations here might help: http://www.jaunted.com/story/2010/1/5/163631/3181/travel/Ful...

edit: never mind, the flyer talk pics are much better.

Currently deployed scanners operate in the 24-30 GHz range. Generally, microwave radiation is considered safe as long as it's not intense enough to cause burns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Health_effects

There are X-ray backscatter scanners in use in the U.S. For example, they are used in San Jose airport, which is probably the airport most used by HN readers.

ha! I will bust out my best sweet thing voice and biggest innocent eyes next time some one tries to tell me that. Even if it does only apply to the xray machines.

I've opted out a few times. My experience has been pretty much like jchrisa. Just tell them that you are opting out when it's your turn.

They would find someone to pat you down along with another officer to watch the process. Pat down takes less than a minute but wait time for officers to become available can be up to 5-10 minutes.

Yeah, it's not presented as an option. All you have to do is say, I don't want to go through the machine. At most airports you can normally just pick the metal detector line and avoid the opt out completely.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com