How to survive a car crash
longreads.com
longreads.com
Sometimes the car slips a bit when doing something sudden but it’s quickly resolved by not doing the thing (sudden braking, sudden turning, sudden acceleration, and so on). With proper tyres and the roads being salted, and aside from needing to be a bit less sudden about movements, I have never felt more at risk in the snow than out of it.
What is there to be afraid of? Are these people driving with Summer tyres or is there some other reason they seem to find snow so problematic? Perhaps the roads are not salted in the US? Are studded tyres allowed? Is it just that some regions like the US generally do very poorly with driving safety and the “snow effect” is more visible? https://www.lifeinnorway.net/norway-has-worlds-safest-roads/ says, for example, that only 2 fatal crashes happen a year in Norway due to phone distractions. I think this is higher in the US?
The author says there are many accidents after heavy snowfalls, but this is not observably the case in most northern European countries that have about an equal number of snow and non-snow days a year. There may be more accidents in snow, but you cannot observe the increase naturally.
Genuinely hoping to understand. Never experienced anything like what some people who are mortified of driving in the snow describe.
Many countries here that do not mandate Winter tyres for the whole season still mandate tyres appropriate for driving conditions, which reads a lot like a requirement to use Winter, studded, or chained tyres in snow. Most countries like that also recommend Winter tyres.
It's a very different approach from having many people not use Winter tyres in snow. I think this explains the fear of driving in snow to me. I would be very concerned if I had to drive in snow with Summer tyres as well.
When I looked into getting winter tires, I saw they generally last 60,000 miles or 6 years whatever comes first and since I only drive like 5,000 miles a year, that means I’d have to replace 2 sets of tires every 6 years instead of 1.
If I drove 20,000 miles a year though I’d definitely get them.
You are talking about whether these tyres make sense. In many countries in Europe, this is not a question. It is mandated. I agree with your reasoning from an economic perspective, of course.
So, the normal response is to avoid driving in it, which means they never learn how to drive in snow.
Those people are going to find snow problematic, because to drive effectively in snow, you need to have a better understanding of vehicle dynamics than is required to extract 0.25g of acceleration from your car on a clean and dry road.
Even in New England (where we get a half dozen to dozen snow events per year), people often stay home in the worst of it, waiting until the main road are mostly clear, and then they go charging out on those mostly clear roads with their all-wheel drive, ABS, and traction control and then come to grief on a section that isn't in the set of mostly clear because "it was fine for the last 20 miles".
If the road is salted and bare you're not driving in snow. You're driving on a regular road. That's not snow driving, period.
When we've had fresh snow and you have 2 or 3 inches of snow that moves around under your tires, driving is way different. That turn you're supposed to go 50 kph in but would love to take at 70 kph under normal conditions? You really want to slow down because you really don't want to drive on your lane, you want to kinda drive in the middle of the road because you aren't actually sure where the lane ends as it's all just white. The snow will make your car move where you didn't want it to go and while you of course can steer against that to correct if you go too fast and too close to the edge of the road on a left turn you're gonna end up in the ditch. And you don't want to go 70 or even 50 if you're essentially making the road one lane. Sudden braking and all ...
Of course a few days after the snow storm you have a hard packed snow surface that has had crushed stone (yes, no salt, the side streets here are not salted) spread on it. You can't drive exactly like it's summer but for the most part you can. You also now know where the ditch is (aka a wall of snow). Still, every year there's two places not 500m from my home where a snow plow regularly finds itself in the ditch while trying to clear snow and has to be pulled out. Even though they put down stakes in fall.
I have never meet a person in real life with alternative weather tires. Its just not a thing in my country.
Here in Finland statistically the most deadly months in traffic are in summer, when there's no snow or ice, and weather conditions are generally good. Holidays and great weather encourage people to drive fast, stay awake late, and drink alcohol.
All the other idiots on the road with minimal/no snow experience, refrozen sleety wet black ice that's far more treacherous than proper dry snow, hills, roads that are not merely not salted, but so snowed in that even emergency services become unable to move around due to unplowed roads and getting snowed in, ...
I'm arrogant enough to be willing to drive in Seattle snow with careful hill-avoiding route planning (and paranoid checking of hill-prone cross traffic.) Still managed to spend half an hour picking at the ice with a shovel the last time I did so when I didn't give it enough gas to get fully into a parking spot and became utterly immobile on the ice the last time I did so.
This is what we're afraid of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhZCyQ3emQg
Or just this last winter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GButmfkNGmg
> Are these people driving with Summer tyres
Yes
> Perhaps the roads are not salted in the US?
Inadequately
> Are studded tyres allowed?
Depends on the locale - not all-year around around here (tears up the road?), and I don't believe studded tyres are sufficient to be legal to go through the passes.
In the UK no-one even switches to winter tyres when it's cold. With snow or ice people are running on 5-10 year old summer tyres with the minimum legal tread depth.
Plus we're basically always in the melt-refreeze zone around 5 to -5c vs. a proper Norwegian winter at -10 to -40 whereby your car can form ice that will just never melt unless it's an ICE. It's just not the same at all.
I miss proper winters!
FWIU they are basically an all-season tyre that has 75% the capability of a winter tyre ... Not just snow but also general wet weather etc when under 5c.
There are loads of videos of YouTube of Cars using them driving up ski slopes etc. They seem like a good compromise for me for UK climate.
*Or at least it's infrequent these days, I'm sure it snowed a lot more often when I was growing up, and my parents tell me that back in their day it would reliably snow a lot every winter. Must be a Chinese hoax.
1) Places where it snows a lot have much more infrastructure in place to handle it. More road treatments, more frequent and better plowing, even roads are designed around snow. It's much easier to be a "good driver" in snow when you have well funded and practiced services backing you up. The reason places in, say, the American south melt down with an inch of snow or ice isn't because people are bad drivers so much as it doesn't take much snow to make roads dangerous as hell if you have no infrastructure to deal with it.
2) Similarly, in places where it snows a lot it makes sense to invest in things like snow tires because they're useful for a significant part of the year. Nobody where it snows a handful of times a year is going to buy snow tires not only because of the cost but because in addition to snowing less, many winter days can also be warm enough that snow tires are going to be a terrible driving experience and wear down much faster.
3) Perhaps most obviously, most things become easier when you do them a lot. "I come from a snowy region and driving in the snow is easy" really should be "I find driving in the snow is easy because I come from a snowy region". I used to be much better at driving in the snow when I did it all the time too, that's how practice works. But that's not really a lesson that does much good to anyone who lives somewhere with occasional snow. They probably are better off just staying home.
4) The thing I learned almost immediately is that regardless of how good you personally are, you're not alone on the road. When I first moved, I felt very comfortable in snowy conditions and regularly went out when it snowed. But it didn't take long to realize doing that meant sharing the road with people with way more confidence than skill (again because they didn't have much practice in the snow). And no amount of personal skill at snow driving is going to save you from someone else losing control and running into you.
How about all-season tyres? They wear much slower than snow tyres in my experience.
Are they available in the US? Is there not enough demand in warmer states to have supply?
Some States salt, some don't. Some don't even have the equipment. Studded tires are not usually allowed. I've got winter tires for my 996, as summer tires are terrible up here in the winter. A good all season works well enough.
https://www.wral.com/nc-s-winter-storm-in-gifs/13390141/
To be fair, it's not entirely their fault. There just isn't much snow-clearing equipment in southern states - but that's because there's only a "major" (for the area) snowfall every 2-3 years. So there's no point in the state paying for that equipment, and there's no point in people owning winter tires (and needing a place to store them in the summer). And when severe weather does happen, often it's ice not snow. Everyone is going to have a bad day driving on ice.
I do think the point from other posters about modern safety & stability systems making people get complacent is a good one.
Anecdotal data: A former boss kept a count of ditched vehicles on his way to the office one time: 12. Of which 11 were Ford Explorers. They're not bad vehicles, just that that the fact they were driving an SUV caused the drivers to become overconfident.
The over-revving story is hilarious but concerning. It's clear that these drivers were not taught to drive on ice. I suppose it's best to leave the car on the side of the road and return later if you have no instruction, training, and haven't sought out any knowledge for ice driving.
Any training for driving on ice is going to be verbal only, as it would probably be 2+ years before the next winter storm and a chance to acquire practical skills. "Steer into the direction of the skid" doesn't acquire real meaning until you've actually had to do that.
Link about US's extreme weather : https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/why-the-u-s-is-leading-...
I did my neurosurgery training at a fairly busy Level 1 Trauma Center (which treats the most severe trauma) and treated a lot of people involved in car crashes.
Seatbelt use made a huge difference. There could be two people in the same car, and the person wearing the seatbelt was evaluated and released and the person not wearing the seatbelt was taken to the operating room or intensive care unit.
Seatbelts keep you in position to allow the car to take the brunt of the forces instead of your body.
Please, always wear a seatbelt and make sure everyone riding with you wears a seatbelt.
I think there are more details related to types of crashes (e.g. head-on vs on the side) that are taken into account through a bus's structure and how it's internally designed too, but I'm less familiar with how and why it works.
There are exceptions, I'm sure.
I note the article says some parents campaigned for seat belts on buses transporting sports teams, so presumably this bus didn't have them.
The guy who was wearing the seatbelt was well-restrained in the back seat. But the guy sitting next to him was unbuckled. The unbuckled man flew into the buckled man, and it is only a matter of luck which of the two skulls will crack. As luck had it that day, it was the buckled man's skull which cracked, leading to his death a few hours later.
> Please, always wear a seatbelt and make sure everyone riding with you wears a seatbelt.
Not only for their safety, but for your own safety as well!Situations like this make me wonder if some kind of helmet would be advisable for use in cars, and not only in bikes and motorcycles.
His wife also left him in the middle of the semester. Another rumor was that she just couldn't stand his eccentricities any longer.
Personally, as a cyclist, I have had my helmeted noggin slam against the pavement on more than one occasion. I have come to greatly respect the potential injury that you could get from a collision at high speed. In hindsight, I can fully respect my physics professor's decision to wear a bicycle helmet when driving his minivan around town. In fact in the future if I find myself needing to drive in inclement weather, I may very well start wearing my bicycle helmet in my car. Hope my wife doesn't leave me.
In these situations, the biggest damage to the brain is something called diffuse axonal injury where rotational forces from the sudden acceleration and deceleration cause injury to the neurons. A helmet would not protect you from that.
In the taxi service I use, all cars are of the same fleet, so it's not difficult to figure out the seat belt, as long as it's in working order. The ride-share drivers, since these are personal cars, often have some sort of stupid obstruction that lies across the seatbelt buckles and prevents riders from finding them.
I don't know why it's so unimportant for ride services that they don't care whether riders are safely strapped in. My parents had a strict policy: "the brakes can't come off until everyone's buckled in." This, to me, is pragmatic and caring advice.
Maybe to someone, recovering from brain injury is relevant. They will think about that.
There’s nothing wrong with focusing on what’s relevant to you in a writing.
Sure, it's convenient, but at what cost!?
Air pollution, tire particle pollution, covering the Earth with asphalt, etc.
Also, and this is gruesome so brace yourself, car travel causes incredible amounts of human suffering. Car collisions cause something like 40,000 fatalities per year just in the USA. In fact, more Americans have died in car crashes than in all the wars we've fought. I call it the "Mayhem Lottery". Anyone can play, little kids, old people, pregnant women, everybody. And the tickets cost nothing, all you have to do is be near a street. (Sometimes cars will even crash into buildings. People have been killed by cars while sitting in their own homes watching TV!)
Now the weird, bizarre thing about this state of affairs is that it is the result of a successful mass-marketing campaign! When cars were first introduced people complained of reckless drivers ("Speed Demons"), the car companies and the government got together and created a deliberate plan to change public attitude (about being run down in the street by car drivers), they actually coined the term "jaywalker" to describe people using the street in the traditional fashion (pedestrians.)
It sounds nuts, because it is, yet it really happened: cf. "The Real Reason Jaywalking Is A Crime" (Adam Ruins Everything) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM
- - - -
Edit to add: You can see the transition period in the "a Trip down Market Street" film from San Francisco, April 14, 1906, just before the Great Earthquake. The source of the problem is clear: cars accelerate much faster than horses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO_1AdYRGW8
I survived a bad one. I got out with only a scratch due to extreme luck. If I went 5 km/h faster, I'd be dead. If I went 15 slower, there would have been no accident. The whole thing wasn't even my fault.
People where I'm from used to be all macho and say "speed doesn't kill, bad driving kills". Don't do it. Smart drivers drive slow, unless they're on a racetrack and everyone's going the same way.
This seems contradictory. Do you mean the other driver was more at fault?
If I drove slower, I could have made allowances for the errors of others. Defensive driving is the best way.
Nice guide from Lesswrong with some car safety tips. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/7XbcDaeigMaxW43EB/how-to-avo...
Guide to health. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/7nH7R9eqYWSPvF4Qm/immortalit...
Another guide to health. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/PhXENjdXiHhsWGfQo/lifestyle-...
Poisoning. https://news.arizona.edu/story/poisoning-the-no-1-cause-of-u...
Medical error. Always double check the medications you get prescribed, ask to read the name of any injections or IVs you're given before you're given them.
A google doc from me related to environmental toxins. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34642916
Incredible data exploration tool from CDC, for non-fatal injuries. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/non-fatal/home
Another incredible data exploration tool from CDC, this one is for fatal. https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/explore-data/home
Great summary images on causes from CDC. https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/LeadingCauses_images.html
The highway was empty for miles around, and even state troopers were out for that storm.
I am pretty sure that if it had not been a heavy low car like the Charger, I'd have been stranded and lonely in a snowstorm for hours on a cold night.
Is that a consequence of the Scunthorpe Problem[0][1]?
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
[1] If it is, perhaps this comment will be marked as spam as well?
I was rather shocked at the unironic chastisement I received at that time!
In addition to your scenario, there's also getting stuck in a snowstorm which can be deadly. And there's deer around too, for which you want the biggest car possible. Sadly tanks aren't road legal yet.
I wish her the best of luck going forward. TBI is something that changes you forever, and not necessarily for the better.
If you know someone with TBI - please be patient with them and give them a little bit more leeway than you would a normal person. We're a little slow and we can't really do much about it.
"the small town in Ohio starts to suffocate you.... whenever you find yourself in a suburb with houses that have washers and dryers or yards or acres and acres of corn fields or a gigantic Walmart, you start to feel a gnawing helplessness in your chest, like an alien is about to rip itself out of you."
Move over, Fran Lebowitz!
0. Don't have a car crash: This might seem like an obvious point but it's worth emphasizing. The first step to safe driving is the mindset of avoiding any kind of accident. Always strive to maintain awareness of your surroundings and anticipate potential hazards; when these hazards create a probable environment of accidents, don't drive.
1. Don't drive if you can avoid it: Use public transportation, bike, walk or even carpool whenever possible. The less time you and others spend on the road, the less risk there is of an accident occurring.
2. Shorten the length of your drive if you can help it: This doesn't just apply to distance, but also to time. Try to avoid peak hours when traffic is heavy, but choose routes that minimize your time on the road.
3. Increase the object-level density of your drive when you can't avoid driving: When you're out and about, complete as many tasks in the same area as possible to minimize further need to drive.
4. Leave earlier. It's not a race against the clock unless you make it one: Leaving with plenty of time to spare can help reduce the stress of driving and allow you to drive more safely. You won't feel the need to rush, which can often lead to reckless behavior.
5. Avoid thoroughfares where people act like it's a race: This includes highways, freeways, and other high-speed roads. These can be dangerous, especially for less experienced drivers. Opt for slower, less congested routes when possible.
6. Avoid bad modal neighborhoods: Don't drive in areas, times, or conditions where drivers tend to be more aggressive or careless. These can be certain parts of town, certain highways, certain times of day, or in inclement weather.
7. Double the "safe" following distance: Always maintain a safe distance from the car in front of you. This gives you more time to react if the car in front stops suddenly. The general rule is one car length for every 10 mph; doubling this adds an extra layer of safety. One car length per 10 mph is the minimum time to stop; not the actual time to stop.
8. Focus on driving and driving alone: This means no multi-tasking. Avoid using your phone, eating, or even having intense conversations while driving. Your full attention should be on the road.
9. Obey the speed limit and use all safety devices: Speeding is one of the leading causes of accidents. Always stick to the speed limit, and remember that it's the maximum speed, not the recommended one. Seat belts and airbags save lives. Make sure you're using them correctly and maintaining them.
10. Signal well-before acting: Use your blinkers to signal your intentions to other drivers. Whether you're changing lanes or turning, signaling gives others time to react and adjust their driving accordingly. It's not a formality. Signaling is not a carte blanche-- you must always ensure it's safe to make the move before you actually do so.
I really wish other cars on the highway observed this rule, but it’s common to see people doing ~80 mph with like two car lengths of buffer. When I myself maintain proper following distance, other drivers take this as an invitation to move into the empty space, forcing me further back in the cluster (and annoying the driver behind me).