Insulin can't be abused in this way, which probably explains why you can just go and buy it at walmart.
Maybe some elevated cardiovascular problems across society as a whole?
Maybe some psychosis in serious chronic abusers?
Why don't we just do this?
Honestly I agree with you. I think drugs like this should be sold OTC because it's basically just like food. It is a substance you put into your body. Just like psychedelics.
And imagine the lives that would be saved if the drug propaganda did not desensitize everyone to actual help. This is the whole reason "harm reduction" forums exist.
But, you know how it is, where the government doesn't trust anyone to use substances responsibly.
Man, what I would give for a "responsible enough to buy drugs OTC" license or whatever. I get dextroamphetamine on prescription, but I also really like LSD and would love to be able to buy that OTC, legally, so I'd know the supply is safe and I'm not going to jail.
Although, I'm pretty sure certain drugs like heroin compromise judgement to a great degree, which makes it very difficult to use responsibly, but honestly there are more creative ways to deal with this that society just hasn't explored because of the whole "war on drugs" ridiculousness.
To think it's taken until ~2021-2022 for a federal administration in the US to finally admit there needs to be better solutions in place, it's absurd! All those deaths could have been prevented.
Some people legitimately need the caffeine just like some people legitimately need ADHD medication, but some people became dependent on caffeine when they didn't necessarily have to be.
People being cranky in the morning is nothing compared to the damage alcohol or drugs do to society.
I don't drink coffee to wake up, I wake up to drink coffee. Let me have my foamy cappuccino and the glorious poop that follows.
Honestly, if someone chooses to be dependent on caffeine because they know and consent to it, that's fine I guess, though unfortunate. The problem is that caffeine use is so normalized that people seem to have forgotten that one even can become addicted or dependent on it—I would say "glorified" but that's a bit far.
FWIW, I have some friends who are trying to quit caffeine. Not because I told them it was an issue, but because they independently decided that. I am somewhat biased by seeing cases of actual caffeine addiction and dependence, whereas most people only see the benefits of taking it. This is probably how the normalization happens, some people just don't know any better.
Seems like the solution is better education on the effects of caffeine and not putting it into the same category as drugs and alcohol. So far I'm yet to hear of people who's lives were ruined by coffee addiction.
The fact that it makes you uncomfortable that people are dependent on coffee is kind of irelevant IMHO. We live in a free society. Let people have their coffee if they want it.
Once you get harassed or mugged by someone on coffee withdrawal who needed a fix, then we can talk about regulating it.
I... regret to inform you that caffeine is literally a drug, stimulant class.
> So far I'm yet to hear of people who's lives were ruined by coffee addiction.
I'm not really sure what your point is here, as I'm not saying caffeine addiction ruins lives, just that it's a thing that could be avoided more than it is now.
> The fact that it makes you uncomfortable that people are dependent on coffee is kind of irelevant IMHO.
I said "unfortunate", not "uncomfortable".
I regret to inform you that not everything classified as a drug is equally bad as all the other drugs, in fact many drugs are useful in certain situations.
It's not black and white, "drugs are bad m-kay", as you want it to be. Which is why coffee is tolerated.
So I don't get your hissy fit on people consuming this particular drug. If you don't want it, then don't drink it, just let others enjoy it, since it has no negative effect on you.
Regularly consuming large amounts of caffeine while barely feeling any effect (beyond getting jitters / bowel issues) or feeling calmed by it, is actually indicative of ADHD.
At 28 I stopped Adderall because I honestly don't care for the side effects, and felt like I had good enough habits to do without it.
That worked for a while, but I was at a job that wasn't too challenging for 6 years (and very underpaid as a result of not being more ambitious/focused)
Switched to another job, ended up getting promoted to lead, then everything came crashing down. Couldn't focus, and as I fell further behind I'd feel more stressed and overwhelmed constantly.
I had been drinking coffee the whole time, but it wasn't helping that much. Irritated my bowels pretty badly though (I ended up needing surgery for a complication of what turned out to be Crohns, though my symptoms are incredibly mild when I'm not drinking over 4 cups of coffee per day).
Finally got back on Adderall after ~10 years unmedicated and was able to just stop coffee. My entire life has improved. I can focus during work hours and even have some free time during the day, since I'm not spending the entire day struggling to get work done.
I can honestly say that Adderall is much more helpful for me, and has minimal physical side effects compared to copious coffee (though I do have mental/emotional side effects, which are honestly less negative than the stress that accompanied being constantly overwhelmed, exhausted, and sleep-deprived)
The process to get my prescription in Canada took almost 2 years (in part because of my poor ability to navigate the labyrinthine health care system due to said ADHD)
But wow, has it already improved my quality of life significantly in the ~1 month I've been back on it. I agree with other posters here that we should just let people get it OTC or allow diagnosed individuals to just get a lifetime prescription
You clearly haven't been paying attention to my comments if you think I'm saying anything like "drugs are bad".
I'm saying undue dependence on something that you didn't need to be dependent on, is unfortunate. As in, it's unfortunate how people can accidentally fall into caffeine dependence without knowing what they are getting into, because it's not that people don't think caffeine is evil, it's that people think caffeine is completely harmless.
> hissy fit
this discussion is over
Fun fact: Did you know hunger is basically just carbohydrate withdrawal? If you stop eating carbs for around 1-2 days, your hunger will go away. Obviously, if you want to stay that way, you will have to find some way to sustain yourself without carbs, but it's a relatively safe experiment to fast for a few days and see what happens.
It's fun to think of food in that way because actually... food is just a pile of substances! Carbs, fats and proteins.
It's just that food is generally safe to eat when you're hungry, but drugs are especially powerful substances that can be dangerous if misused. But still stuff that you can put into your body, through basically the exact same mechanisms as food.
I'm all for caution and research and responsibility and informed consent and all that—all good things. But I don't think drugs are inherently so much different than food that you don't deserve some level of autonomy with them.
In other words, I think the amphetamines and stuff should be OTC. Like... legalize them all, legalize everything. Not only would this make the supply safer for people who are already taking those substances, since they can be made by reputable, professional companies, but this would help get rid of the taboo around sharing safe dosage and supplement information, which would seriously help a lot of people (harm reduction!).
All the FUD around the war on drugs is just causing harm to the world. It's causing people to go to jail just from putting things into their own body, it's denying people access to safe medical information, it's barring medical professionals from helping people with substances that happen to be illegal, it's denying people a safe supply of their favorite drugs (which usually results in people going to shady sources, not abstaining completely), ... the list goes on.
Yeah, amphetamines aren't food, but it's nice to imagine a world where they're available freely and used responsibly. Unfortunately I'm not sure if that's a possible future.
Would be nice if only people who are against drugs would pay some additional tax to sustain the whole prison-industrial-DEA-complex though. I don't do illegal drugs, but the fact that I'm forced to sponsor that due to other people's self-righteous puritanism is just stupid.
Problems caused by drug abuse != problems caused by drug availability.
Meth is neurotoxic, we know this now. So are all stimulants, to a degree. I take magnesium supplements with my ADHD meds because it depletes my brain of natural magnesium—I have had blood tests confirm this. But meth can be particularly dangerous, especially due to how addictive it is and how neurotoxic it gets when abused, compared to even the other amphetamines like dextroamphetamine.
All this is not to say that it shouldn't be widely available. Just that proper, responsible usage information should also be widely available. Which it is not.
If people knew how to take meth properly and responsibly, maybe there would be less cases of it getting out of control.
Too bad all people have to go off of is anti-drug propaganda that says all drugs are bad. Leads to them ignoring all advice altogether, even if it could've otherwise helped them.
Drugs like opioids and stimulants are great in that they work well at masking lots of symptoms, but our bodies adapt to them and the need for them feeds the physical dependence.
The mental abuse factors amplify as well availability. Bookies and sports betting isn’t novel. Legalized betting on smartphones is; so now billions are spent on marketing to vacuum up many billions of dollars of bets.
Humans are wired the way they are wired. Education about risk only benefits people capable of managing the risk - not the people likely to get addicted in the first place.
Sure, but people likely to get addicted are sometimes also in the presence of people who would benefit from a proper drug education in order to help protect the more vulnerable.
Am I saying people will stop using drugs if they stop being illegal? No way, the opposite actually. But if drug use wasn't considered indiscriminately bad, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing anyway.
Looks like it was scheduled in the US in 1971.
Adderall is a mix of 3:1 dextroamphetamine to levoamphetamine. It is not "plain old amphetamine", also known as racemic or "free-base" amphetamine (equal mix of dextro- and levo-).
I can't take levoamphetamine, and need dextroamphetamine directly. Unsure if that was ever sold OTC on its own.
I think Dexedrine was sold OTC in the 50s and 60s, hard to be sure, sources I can find talk about it being popular for use by anyone and everyone, from dieting housewives to truck drivers and athletes, but don't specifically mention it being OTC or prescription.
Any sort of source to back this up?
I'm not arguing for dexedrine etc to be freely available, FYI, just discussing that it used to be.
I'm not saying I don't find it plausible, but a warning message on the box isn't exactly the confirmation I was looking for.
Sounds more like correlation to me than causation.
You know that feeling that most impressive leaps in engineering and technology in general all happened in the 20th century, especially between 1950s and 1980s, and that we've somehow lost the ability to do big things?
> Looks like it was scheduled in the US in 1971.
Maybe that's the answer.
I generally support making more stuff OTC. For instance, in many countries low dosage codeine tablets are available OTC.
Similarly, given that the already have a plethora of bars, I see no harm in airports adding Valium vending machines.
But boy does it come in handy for other things. It’s the best cold symptom medication there is. Need to drive late at night when you should be tired? Pop 5mg and you can actually drive safely for a few hours. It’s a shame we have it locked away.
That said, it’s dangerous to think other people would act like you. People would definitely abuse it (more than they already do). I come down on your idea like I do in most drug legalization questions. Conceptually I think we should be able to do whatever the hell we want to our bodies. Realistically I don’t know if that works for society.
It might still be easier to get MAID (medically assisted suicide) here in Canada than Adderall. What a shitshow
Is there anything a random USAian could legally do to help your situation? I don't have a ton of financial resources, but if having someone in your corner helps, I might be able to do that for you.
In another comment here I mentioned the process took about 2 years for me (even though I was first diagnosed with ADHD in the U.S. in 1994 or so)
I really appreciate the offer though, very kind of you
Not to say responsible people don't exist, but rather that without a framework to support them, it's all their own personal responsibility. And there's also preliminary studies showing meth being somewhat neuroprotective at low doses, so if someone is using it purely for productivity, and taking the right supplements, it's possible that they could avoid damaging themselves too much.
But this is all theoretical and basically I don't fully believe in self-medicating for an ADHD case that you could be getting a real prescription for. I do believe in self-medicating using psychedelics and the like because there's no prescription treatment for that (yet), but as soon as you're allowed to ask a medical professional to help, I think you should.
FWIW even once psilocybin clinics become a thing, I'm still going to be taking LSD at home, because home has my toys and my friends, and clinics have neither. But if one day I can be prescribed LSD to take home and use on my own terms, I'd be glad to ask a professional for advice on it, and get a prescription. Just has to, you know, be legal first.
Sounds like an incredibly miserable way to live, honestly.
My favourite junk food, and one that puts me KO for 3 days is a double cheese pizza.
Makes me depressed and despondent, bloated and my ADHD meds stop being effective (but my usual dose is quite low on purpose). But that's because of my physiology, the opioid effect is in the strong craving, and how lovely the first bite is, and how I hate myself after the first bite, for having succumbed to its allure once again.
Gluten and casein are under-researched. The fact that there is a so called "gluten sensitivity" fad is not a shared hallucination, but some effect we haven't identified or understood yet.
Aren't you the one who's been comparing ADHD treatment to crack addiction all throughout this comments section?
There is no reasoning with that kind of people. I just hate they keep the stigma around ADHD and its very effective medication alive so we keep being branded as druggies.
These are all things that I greatly enjoy and do whenever possible. And I think it's okay to enjoy things in life. I also think it's okay to enjoy drugs in life. Because while my meds finally let me relax and stop getting so painfully bored, they don't detract from my life, don't cause any adverse side effects (besides urinary retention, which is basically harmless), and don't even cause any adverse withdrawal symptoms.
I even take them around every 3 days now because sleeping for 15 hours in between feels nice. I don't have any obligations, so why take them every day if I can enjoy some really nice and comfy sleep in between? I don't get enough sleep on my meds anyway, 7 hours is the usual max I can get every night, so catching up is probably healthy too. Not to mention that my meds cause my preferences to flip a bit; I prefer entertainment while off meds, and productivity while on meds, and I want to keep both sides in my life.
I don't think anyone could make a convincing case that this is a bad thing. I am enjoying my life right now, and not harming myself or others, so~
Euphoria stops happening the second day you are on meds, and when they wear off there is no feeling whatsoever to redose. I honestly just feel I have done a lot and it's time to rest for the day. I am lucky it wears completely off by bed time, so sleep has been great.
In my experience, caffeine feels 10x as addictive than dexamfetamine.
It didn't for me. It lasted something like two weeks. And after months it still sort of happens. The euphoria doesn't come directly from the drug, it comes from feeling free and relaxed and in control. From being able to lay in bed and do nothing and feel good about it. Without ever getting bored like what happens all the time without meds.
Boredom isn't supposed to be so painful all the time, but it normally is for me. Being free from that is euphoric regardless of the substance I'm taking, honestly.