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Comment by zoogeny | Hacker News Reader

I can't put my finger on why, but even though I agree with some of this advice - I don't like this person.

I agree much of it is insufferable:

> One day you’ll find yourself saying “like” a lot. Please stop. If this generation can’t quit the habit, we’ll eventually have an American president who speaks that way too.

People who think this way really grind my gears. I especially enjoy that, like, there's no explanation for why this would be a problem.

Isn't that bit the same as when people use the word literally but not meaning literally? It grinds your gears but who am I to tell people how to speak?

And what about people filming vertical videos? There's like, literally millions of things you could mention that are cringy to others.

people hold the phone vertically when shooting video because that’s the way the video looks when they watch it on their phone. This is the most correct way to prepare a video for casual viewing.

No they don’t. People hold the phone vertically when shooting video because it’s the easiest ergonomically to do one-handed.

People hold the phone vertically when they shoot videos of other people, and other people happen to be vertical. They can see each other (aspect ratio)^2 times larger: more pixel, and bigger on screen.

My GF watches youtube vertically... only using 1/3rd of the screen.

So do I. It's a little annoying, but 99 pct of the time I'm holding the phone vertically, and rotating the screen is usually not worth it.

If 't be true thou art so 'gainst w'rds changing meaning, then wherefore aren't thee speaking liketh this

I'm like, why would any, like, president, be like, using this Los Angeles lingo in like formal gatherings.

People like who like think like this like way like really like grind like my like gears. Like I like especially like enjoy like that, like, there's like no like explanation like for like why like this like would like be like a like problem.

You really see nothing wrong with this?

Old man yells at cloud. “Back in my day likes were called ums and ahs!”

And we teach people to avoid those too.

Weasel words and delaying terms are common regardless, and usually not desirable.

They may not be desirable but they are probably useful.

Many years ago I saw a study that ums and ahs helped listeners understand better because it indicated the next phrase was important.

If you think you're going to get rid of filler, you're in for a big disappointment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_(linguistics)

> In linguistics, a filler, filled pause, hesitation marker or planner is a sound or word that participants in a conversation use to signal that they are pausing to think but are not finished speaking.

[snip]

> Every conversation involves turn-taking, which means that whenever someone wants to speak and hears a pause, they do so. Pauses are commonly used to indicate that someone's turn has ended, which can create confusion when someone has not finished a thought but has paused to form a thought; in order to prevent this confusion, they will use a filler word such as um, er, or uh.[1][3] The use of a filler word indicates that the other person should continue listening instead of speaking.[4]

More to the point: Every language has them. Every language has always had them. Journalists are trained to edit them out of "verbatim" conversational speech unless they want the person they're quoting to come off like an imbecile, but longstanding journalistic convention doesn't mean filler is in any way recent.

We don't always speak without filler any more than we always speak in iambic pentameter.

For people in the age group that commonly does this, they know which part of the sentence the interjection is likely to appear in, and their brain can automatically filter it out, so it doesn't bother them and they don't even see it as a problem.

This applies to all verbal interjection. You use some form of verbal interjection too, but of course you don't even notice that you are doing it, and you would also get angry if some other people told you that your speech pattern is stupid and that you should change how you naturally speak.

Except that this sounds like a Xerox of a Xerox of a stereotyped California valley girl. Reductio ad absurdum much?

Also it's significantly less noticeable in spoken conversation. smh...

> Please stop. If this generation can’t quit the habit, we’ll eventually have an American president who speaks that way too.

What an utterly superficial way of looking at the presidency. GW Bush and Trump didn't talk like valley girls, but still said plenty of nonsensical garbage that lost them respect at home and abroad.

As someone who gets deeply irritated by filler words, I will try to tell you why it makes me feel like that.

People who abuse filler words do so to keep the line busy because they fear being interrupted. Their speech is a continuous and anxious stream of poorly formed sentences without regard for the listener. Trying to listen to them feels like taking a ride with a brake-happy, inexperienced driver.

You seem to have successfully identified the core issue, and it's not the filler words.

I didn't believe the conceit -- that the narrator is your wise uncle. It sounded like advice written by a much younger person pretending to be the wise uncle.

The wisest man I know happens to be my uncle. He rarely volunteers advice. Instead, I have to pry it out of him, or learn from his example.

I wonder, are wise men uncles rather than dads because they were too smart to have kids?

There’s more

  child -> uncle

…relations than

  child -> father

…relations.

Plus, what you said. Might be something in that.

Definitely, I got the same vibe reading this as I do with Economist articles where you can tell the unnamed author waxing poetic inefficiencies in state allocation of capital just graduated 2 years ago.

The site left the exact same taste in my mouth. It comes off as holier than thou.

The narrator is old, weary, wise, and completely sick of your shit.

Just old probs

I can. We all know a person like this: well-read but highly sanctimonious, overly concerned with keeping up appearances, frequently complains about 'societal degeneration'.

Bonus points if they're also a tech bro who's into Seneca and Marcus Aurelius.

The problem I’ve always found with etiquette advice is that it can usually be summed up with “be kind to your fellow human” or it’s just “I have this pet peeve, stop doing this”.

>I don't like this person.

I can relate to that. About this "You can’t make eye contact with Siri or Alexa, but it’s a good habit to thank them as well."

I understand the sentiment, still I think this has to be debated considering all the implications.

I have thanked AI in the past, not Siri or Alexa, but when it’s smart enough for me to wonder whether there is a bit of consciousness hiding in there. Just in case.

I think there’s a significant difference between the user in being an adult that knows that Siri etc isn’t ‘real’ and is considerate enough of others to treat them with respect to say please and thank you, and a child. What do we teach a young boy if he learns that he doesn’t have to say please and thank you to a device that (almost universally up until now) speaks with a woman’s voice?

I'm convinced that this was written by ChatGPT or something similar. It reads in the same banal way.

It's because it's the kind of common well-trotted out wisdom that you'd find in a fortune cookie, they've just placed it in a much fancier dish.

Yeah, some of them are too snarky. One day you’ll find yourself writing etiquette advice…

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