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Comment by jeffwass | Hacker News Reader

I’ve found much leverage by giving a choice to my kids in an orthogonal dimension.

Eg : “I don’t want to eat broccoli with dinner!”

“Well, would you rather eat it on the pink plate or the blue plate?”

Maybe I’m missing something or likely I’m diverging from the actual Hobson’s choice paradigm, but the Take-It-Or-Leave-It example in the article is clearly not a choice (that’s the point presumably). But letting my kid choose the color plate to eat the broccoli is a real choice although inconsequential to the act of eating broccoli itself.

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My parents gave me the choice between two jackets when I did not want to wear one. I remember that I found it unfair to give me this choice, but I wasn't able to articulate that at this point. It might work for the parent, but it also has side effects, because the child knows it is being tricked.

It’s not about tricking the child, it’s about helping them manage their non-negotiable task by giving them some choice(s).

Bullshit.

Do you often find yourself rejecting ill-poised choices in adulthood?

When a website asks me if I want to pay $10 a month or save $20 by prepaying $100 for a year.

When my job gives me the choice of a drop in compensation when my stock grant expires, or earning that promotion to get raise.

In this society? How can that answer be anything but a instantaneous yes?

People romanticize being a kid. I hated it. Adults were constantly giving you the illusion of choice.

You want A or B?

I want B.

Are you sure you don't want A?

Yup. Definitely B.

Here's A. I'm happy you made the right decision.

And that's how it was. They'd let you pretend and then the worst part was they would force you to be complicit after the fact. And let's be honest I would have totally been a responsible dirt bike owner. Maybe.

That isn't the illusion of choice. The illusion is giving you a choice and getting you to choose the one they want you to choose. In your case they asked you want you wanted, then ignored you.

Sure but imagine I'd done what they wanted. I'm making a "decision" and their happy because it was the correct one. Just because an illusion is dispelled doesn't mean it never existed.

That's just bad parenting. I can't imagine giving my kids a choice when I'm not okay with the options presented.

There's limits; if they pick something not an option presented, they might not get it, but giving kids everything they ask for isn't stellar parenting either

Parents want their kid to make the right choice when presented with a good and a bad option. In a prefect world you ease a kid into making choices for their life. You explain the pros and the cons of the options and then sit back while the kid - after sitting patiently and listening to the Socratic brilliance of your description of the choice - does what any rational person would do.

What's the alternative? You make sure there's never a bad choice possible? Or that there are bad choices but not super duper bad? Like the dirtbike is on the table but you have to wear a helmet?

I didn't like being kid but in a lot of ways being a parent is even worse. I'd like them to not be a jerk, stay safe and maybe be happy but I can't and don't want to run their life for them. At the same time I see this combination of brilliance and poor judgement that just makes me feel tired all over.

At least being a kid you could (with even the hazy reasoning available to a child) squint and see that the trend line was in the right direction. As a parent every year is worse then the one before it. All I can see for the future is me being more concerned and having less and less capacity to do anything about my worries.

I specifically was thinking of multiple-choice options. "Do you want broccoli or ice cream" followed by "Oh, I'm glad you want broccoli" when they pick ice cream doesn't seem like it's useful.

At a certain age, they get to the point where you can point out obviously bad consequences and maybe word that as a choice ("wear a helmet or suffer lifelong brain-damage if you fall on your head"), but that's primarily because they understand that you aren't really offering them a choice, and when they don't understand this it just comes off as cruel. If one of my kids picked "lifelong brain-damage" (and wasn't being obviously sarcastic), I would probably respond with something like "when you're 18 you can make that choice, but until then, I'm responsible for taking reasonable precautions against you getting lifelong brain-damage, so wear the flipping helmet" not "I'm glad you decided to wear a helmet"

I got the impression from your first comment that it was more like "ice cream or broccoli" and less like "helmet or brain damage" but that may have been a poor assumption.

Also, I want to be clear, I called the action "bad parenting" but I don't want to imply that parents who do this are "bad parents" since all parents occasionally do things that are bad parenting. I could make a list a mile long of my less-than-stellar parenting moments, but, on the whole, consider myself to be a good parent.

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