Commuter Cars Tango | Hacker News Reader

Commuter Cars Tango

commutercars.com

While this is a laudable product they are still stuck with thinking the problems faced when commuting in suburbia are solved by non-structural change.

"The problem is not too many single-occupant drivers. It's the design of the cars that they are driving."

Putting all discussion of solutions aside, this strikes me as naive. Including this quote on the same page as "The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them." is ridiculous. Highways would still be crowded even if everyone switched to the Tango, and fixing that requires more than a smaller car.

"The fact is: People who can afford cars will use them, despite the inconvenience of traffic congestion."

This is another point they make that I don't agree with. Commuters will choose their mode of transportation based on comfort, speed and affordability. If another mode of transport rivals the car on these points people will commute less by car. Making this point only goes to show that the people behind the product are locked in a car-centric mindset and that the idea of commuting by train is off the table before it is even discussed.

Highway congestion will stay with us as long as cars are the only viable option for commuting, and as long as suburbian sprawl goes on, that will be the case. Even if the cars get smaller.

An obvious counterexample to "people who can afford cars will use them" would be, say, the Tokyo metropolitan area, where an overwhelming majority of commuters of every income level use mass transit. The Tokyo metro area has 37 million people and only about 3 million registered cars.

IIRC you can’t buy cars in Japan unless you have a certificate proving that you have a parking space for it. So owning a car for lots of people in Tokyo is borderline impossible.

If you look at Seoul, with similar density and public transit system but without a similar regulation for car ownership, you’ll find that the rate of car registration dramatically increases.

The Netherlands has 1.5x the density of Japan yet has more cars than households because they are relatively affordable. People wouldn't have as much cars as we do now if they weren't affordable.

I have a car that I seldomly use, but it's cheap and comes in handy for trips where public transit doesn't work out. I probably would sell it if it became unaffordable. Right now it costs me around 3% of my monthly wage to keep around.

You're asking the wrong question.

Tokyo is full of people who are happy to use public transport. People who are not generally don't live there.

Car enthusiasts rarely live in Central London either.

The quote at the page's bottom: “The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them” - well, about that...

1.5 tonne? For a single person transport? That's as heavy or heavier than the average Japanese or European car.

Oops I see it has space for two.

And it has no more range than my 2015 Model S 70D that is nearly 700 kg heavier despite having almost as much battery capacity.

Bit late for April Fool's isn't it?

Looks like they're using LiFePO4 batteries, which would explain why the car is stupidly heavy.

Wait, they're using a DC motor. How old is this design? (Is it as old as the website design?)

I agree, I see no reason for this to exist. For 240 thousand dollars I would expect something that is top of the line. Maybe this was a good car 20 years ago but technology has moved on since then.

You're upset that a car weighs as much as a car?

I'm astonished (not upset) that it weighs so much and delivers (in all senses) so little.

Fair point, I do feel like it should have better range given the tiny form factor. It's also a very old design, I remember seeing articles about it 20 years ago back when it used lead acid batteries.

With all my regards to the creator and engineers, it's effectively a small-production concept car made with parts retrofitted from other consumer vehicles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5SJeotIq20

This thing flies, you can't flip it, safer than an already-pretty-safe-surprisingly Smart car, lane-splits, and parks anywhere.

We may not be the target market, but that doesn't mean it doesn't deliver.

Well there's a blast from the past. They've been at this a loooooong time [0]. This project was actively discussed on the EVDL by people daily driving an EV1. Reminds me of another project that launched at the same time that didn't quite get off the ground - the Corbin Sparrow. Which also still sort of exists in a kind of limbo somehow?

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20001206202100/http://www.commut...

In the US, It's practically impossible to move away from car-centric design. It's extremely difficult to add width to existing streets in city centers. But one thing we can do is get more lanes from the street width we already have, by moving a significant portion of commuter traffic to tiny cars like this. Incentivizing cars like these seems like the only large-scale mitigation for congestion.

Get just a little smaller, and dedicate a (grade-separated) lane to them, and you have bicycles in a bike lane.

I think bikes are a tough sell to most Americans for one uncontrollable variable called weather. Then you have effort and sweat and then you’ve eliminated most of the others as well.

Other countries also have weather and they seem to cope ok with it. Obviously there are some extremes which can make it unpleasant but for the most part the weather isn't as big a deal as it's made out to be when it comes to cycling.

E-bikes mostly solve the effort and sweat aspect. But that introduces a larger entry cost.

I'd say distance is the biggest factor preventing it taking off in the US (Outside of Cities). A mixture of cycling + transit could solve the longer distances.

Honestly, as someone who's commuted 10s of thousands of miles by bike, I disagree. Weather (well, rain and snow) is absolutely a big deal when cycling. Cycling in cold is OK, cycling in freezing rain is absolutely horrible. You can get around this somewhat with waterproof gear, but then you have to spend 20 minutes getting changed at either end.

Even in "rainy" London, it's only a small fraction of days that are like that. But you need a solution for those days, too.

Cycling is an excellent mode of transport in cities, but it's not perfect. Some sort of covered bike or micro-car would solve some of those problems.

Every time someone mention this, I look at which days in a year I really had to use protective gear and I can count with the fingers of my hand. Most rainy days it doesn't even rain all day and you often end up lucky during your transit time with a few small drops.

And the solution is easy: a bike with full length fenders, a poncho, some gloves, possibly some change in an hermetic bag.

Also rain in summer is not an issue, sometimes it is even pleasant and refreshing.

And you probably also forget that in most motorists case, they don't all have the change to have an indoor parking both at home and at the office / place they do errands. Most need to walk from home to parking space then from parking space to office/shop...and get soaked in the process.

California?

Weather doesn't seem to be a problem in the Netherlands, although down south at 52°N they get slightly milder weather than here in Scotland, where pretty much every city is rolling out huge improvements in cycling infrastructure.

You're not made of sugar. You won't melt in the rain.

> You're not made of sugar. You won't melt in the rain.

Majority of Americans will disagree is what I'm saying. We're used to climate controlled boxes, this allows people do get dressed up for things and wear a bunch of make-up/hair product, etc. Not everyone, but a majority. Culturally, when I travel it's a thing that I notice a lot. Other places that use bikes and have that cultural norm, they also tend to normalize the other dress code parts that go along with it. In US, it would be a tough sell because we have nearly no basis for this concept. Even people that go to a gym tend to shower and change clothes (including grooming) prior to doing anything else social/work related.

Bike lanes are popular here in Ireland and, boy, let’s talk about weather…

Now, seriously, we don’t get much snow (to the point 10cm halts a city) but we do more than a fair share of cold rain and gusty wind.

I'm a dedicated cyclist. But the switch from mini-car to bike is the switch away from car-centric design, which many people simply won't do.

Instead of tiny cars, what about really big cars. That can hold many people. And maybe travel along a set route. On a schedule of sorts.

Travelling along a set route on a schedule would be annoying, why not dynamically create the route and time based on the current requests of potential passengers? If 100 people want to go from A to B, send a bus, if 5, a car, if 1000, a train

I've been on one of those elevators. They never work well.

Because it's software written by hardware people, Uber works fine

The American regulatory environment only knows how to work with larger vehicles. You can follow Arcimoto's journey on having to classify their vehicles as motorcycles to see an example. Another victim of American car centrism.

So, like a Renault Twizy, but ugly. Probably unsafe as well.

When I worked at Google (in like 2009?) there used to be one of these parked in the lot near 43.

That was probably Peter Gregory (RIP) visiting.

Funny you should bring that up; I was a consultant on that show.

Billionaires...

Certainly wouldn't be Russ Hanneman.

    >> 0 to 60 mph in 3.2 seconds

    >> 1/4-mile in 12.214 seconds

Those numbers are not to be sniffed at. That’s quite a lot sharper than say an Audi S3 (a quick car that’s still entirely conventional for commuting)

it's as fast, if not faster than an RS3 even. Sounds a bit dangerous?

This actually exists in France although not many were sold… https://www.renault.fr/vehicules-electriques/twizy.html

I have one and tbh I love it. Perfect city car. Accelerates fast (up to 50km/h, then ...) and can park nearly anywhere.

I added a trailer hitch to it so I can increase a bit the useful space.

I have a bigger car too, but if I can I'll take the twizy: driving it is so much fun

Honestly, I'd like to have one. But I actually only need it for bad weather and winter, otherwise I'd take the bike or train. And then I generally doubt its actual usefulness in those conditions. Weather can be pretty bad in the German foothills of the alps, where I live.

I live near the Swiss alps too :-) It's true that without heating, you need a scarf and gloves to drive. However, being a RWD, it's quite easy (and fun :D) to drive in the snow

This is just a normal (and normal-looking) microcar, not really that stretch vehicle that OP linked.

Given the rise of SUVs and Trucks (because: loafing legislators & lobbyists) this seems far-fetched

The high weight and acceleration seem not that safe for other travellers.

These would be amazing where I live (Prague). If you're inside the city the max speed you can ever reach is about 50kph, and often far slower. Parking would also be so much easier.

Word for today: bicycle.

A car's a car and that's that (doesn't rhyme though).

Looks kind of like Arcimoto, which, sadly, seems to be on the ropes.

Arcimoto was doomed the moment they refused to put doors on anything.

less cars plz.

Because I only buy cars that list Headway brand cells near the top of the spec sheet.

Maybe if you are average driver (e.g. violently reckless/greedy), accident avoidance would be a viable strategy statistically...

Personally, the only accident I have ever experienced was an 18 wheeler gassing it into my rear bumper when I was stopped at a red light.. and I'm certainly glad I wasn't in that little go kart at the time.

For a cautious driver that actually follows speed limits and leaves 7 car following distance I don't see this car as helpful in any way.

Downvoted for basic physics problem. As small mass impacted by the force of a large mass, the acceleration force is proportionally multiplied. Momentum = mass * acceleration

So acceleration = momentum / mass

10x mass Big truck hits go kart, go kart driver is accelerated 10x the speed of the truck. Whiplash, chance of impacting subsequent obstacles, etc. go up

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