Kiss your free returns goodbye
thehustle.co
thehustle.co
One of the key unresolved problems in fashion retail remains the crazy, unreliable sizing systems. Just because you are size $X at one brand, doesn’t mean you’re size $X at another. Also, the majority of brands only cater to average body proportions. Slim feet? Tall? Good luck!
The manufacturing tolerances for anything below designed fashion are just too large. When stuff is hand made (by experts, not just for the marketing label of “hand made”) then they tend to be accurate enough, but the stuff most people buy in shops is never going to have a reliable fit unless the whole supply chain is overhauled.
And that’s not to mention how for changes as the fabrics age and are washed. That’s a whole extra load of complexity.
Edit, to give an illustrative example. When cutting out pieces for a garment, the cutting will typically be done on a band saw (or fabric cutting equivalent). For most garments the fabric will be stacked 10-20 sheets high so that many pieces are cut in one go. A person shoving 20 layers of fabric through a saw in a few seconds is never going to be accurate. Contrast this to a high end garment where it might be 2-5 layers carefully guided through a saw by someone who can take a minute to get it right, that’s just far more likely to hit the targets.
In my experience it’s worse than that. Buying from the same brand, sometimes even the same item (or its successor), results in wildy different fitment.
I’ve strictly returned to brick and mortar. It’s so much more convenient buying something that fits.
The difference? The "Made in XXX" country had changed.
Agreed, trying to buy clothes online is a nightmare
This seems a bit nonsensical to me however I am reliably informed that this is the modern way.
Is it predatory on unsuspecting buyers? many times. Is it worse for a slice of the economy? Yes.
But free returns is unsustainable. Hence it eats into quality of products sold.
Even in the US, there are countless things you cannot return.
If returns cost them so much they'd do it now. But they don't: It is so much cheaper to produce the garment as it is that it won't change. They already make money from folk buying products and not bothering to return them.
No more free returns just means more consumers will be wary of ordering. The better fit stuff won't happen until actual laws are put into place and/or places start punishing manufacturers by refusing to sell their products on their platform, regardless of who is reselling them.
I very highly doubt it will affect whether or not returns are free, though.
Just buy European sized things. Sizes are sizes They're clear. They're clear to the point of your having a ability to measure yourself and always get what you're trying to get. Heck, many of these sites just publish a complete sizing guide, so that you can measure yourself.
My introduction to this, having moved from north America, has been eye opening. The standardization has eliminated any chance I ever try a North American made item now.
I live in northern Europe. I usually buy pants in the store so that I can try them on. I have to try on every single pair, even if they are the same size, style, color, and are sitting on top of each other on a table.
The sizes within the same garment aren't consistent, let alone the sizing in different stores.
Not to mention that some places only put the European sizes on sites for the European market after using a conversion from whatever sizing system they happen to use. You generally aren't getting a different manufacturer by avoiding a "north american made" item.
I'm European and I have no idea what you're talking about. This simply isn't true, and cannot be true even in theory because our bodies are three-dimensional and clothing sizes are usually single numbers/letters.
A single size number will always be insufficient - 95% of jeans that fit my waist are too short and there's no way to know other than trying them. Same with shirts. I can try two shoes in the same size from the same brand and only one fits because the other one was designed for stick figure feet. One of my shoes is size 43, another is size 45 and they're literally the same size.
People like making fun of imperial units but what actually deserves all this ridicule and more is the nonsensical chaos that is clothing sizes, numbers that the manufacturers seem to get via dice rolls.
Retail: I like this shirt on rack, try on two sizes, wait one size I need is sold out. End up settling for another item that I like and has my size in store. Might be third or forth option. I might just say forget it and leave empty handed.
Online: I kind of like this shirt, I buy 2 sizes I think might work, try them on when they arrive in my house on my time, if I actually like the fabric/look in person and I’ve identified the size works, I keep one of them and return the other. If I ended up disliking the fabric or something entirely that I couldn’t tell from product pictures I return both.
That said, the logistical issues of browsing/shopping online are significant too. I tend to be somewhat brand/store loyal so that’s how I deal with it.
The question is whether brick-and-mortar stores will be able to recover, since that's an advantage they offer.
I think the worst is when I'm asked to pay for shipping when it's a broken product covered under warranty.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers...
Good point also about how various online ordering pushed brick-and-mortar beyond recovery; with many such loss-leading and predatory practices.
Obviously that's not everything. It may not even be most things. But it's way easier and more attractive to just say "order it first, then return what doesn't work". It works as long as most people aren't assholes about it.
(It didn't help that there were assholes on the seller side, too. Yet another reason to return stuff was fakes, and Amazon decided it was easier to accept returns without complaint than to guarantee that you got what you ordered. Especially since many customers wouldn't notice.)
Honestly, for things that are sized, and how inconsistent sizes can be (even across multiple batches of one product), I would expect businesses to expect returns for wrong sizes.
As an example, I recently purchased a hat from Goorin Bros.. I ordered two sizes, and returned the one did not fit. Doing the return was easy, using the box the hat originally came in. The hat was not cheap, but I expected that.
In the end I just had to do a chargeback, which I imagine is hurtful to their business. They just left me no choice.
Really? I've never seen this. An issue I have encountered is that sometimes they don't offer UPS dropoff as an option, only a $7 UPS pickup or driving for an hour+ to go to an Amazon warehouse. Usually chatting with an agent will resolve this issue, but it's a PITA and shouldn't happen for an item with "Free Returns" "for any reason".
I guess this is one of those times when we have to recognize that humans are not a totally homogenous species with identical habits and desires. Believe it or not, there are many people in the world who couldn't care less which OS or text editor they use nor even how the configuration should be adjusted to suit their tastes and workflow. They would be absolutely mystified by all the discussion that goes on in these parts about different Linux flavours, tabs v spaces, vim v emacs etc etc.
Now imagine that kind of complexity and nuance applied to products that you are relatively indifferent towards. There are thousands of people out there who care about every single detail about a piece of clothing, not just being the perfect fit (yes, that does matter to a lot of people, rather than "it'll do"), but also the exact colour, texture, fabric, stitching patterns, quality of manufacture, the style of the cut which may look good on a model on the website but just doesn't suit the person's own body at all. Have you ever wondered why so many people (often, but not exclusively women) can spend an entire day shopping for a single garment, visiting so many different stores, trying on so many apparently similar items before being satisfied with just one (and even then, sometimes still regretting the purchase afterwards). Buying clothes, for many people, requires trying on so many different alternatives and making a considered decision. And in all the details above, there is often a big difference between what is perceived from the website images vs the reality of the garment when it is held in the hands, examined in detail, tried on the individual person.
"Free returns" has enabled a behaviour I have often seen in friends and family: order lots of different items with the clear intention of sending at least half of them back, perhaps more, knowing in advance due to the nature of online retail that at least some of those clothes will simply be disappointing when seen up close, others will be a terrible fit, and yet others will sort-of fit in a way that pleases many people but somehow doesn't yet feel right. They are using their homes as the changing room at the store. The paradigm is not "decide what to buy before ordering, choose only one item and only send it back if it is egregiously disappointing", rather "order a whole range of items to try on and assess, then keep only the ones that really please me."
I'm not saying this is good or bad, simply trying to provide some explanation to address your "how in the world" question. Free returns has, until now, enabled this behaviour in consumers which probably drove a lot of growth among skeptical buyers by allowing them to mimic the live shopping experience (try on lots of stuff, keep only a few) at home. If this isn't economically viable, then I guess consumers who are now a lot more acclimatised to online clothes shopping will have to adjust having some of the risk and inconvenience pushed back in their direction. Or, they will choose stores that offer them the service they have become used to while other consumers like you will probably choose a different retailer with lower prices overall but a stricter return policy. Or someone will invent some new kind of financial model, like an opt-in "returns insurance" or Prime-style subscription fee that allows unlimited "free" returns only for those customers who value that experience. Who knows? It's a shift in the market which as ever will be fun to watch.
I can buy two pairs of pants. Same color (black), same style, same size, and bought at the same time. I can buy them at the store and try on one pair. And the second pair commonly fits differently. One a bit loose and the other having a waistband that digs in a little bit.
Shirts are similar. One will have room for breasts, the other gaps at the buttons or stretches more. One long sleeve shirt will touch the back of my hands, the other will show my wrist bones.
Ordering isn't much better: You have to trust that their garments actually match their sizing chart. My summer jacket was one my spouse ordered, and it definitely ran smaller than advertised.
This isn't being a perfectionist, but expecting honesty with fit and for the same garment to fit basically the same.
A lot of people simply order a bunch of shoes or whatever, try them on like in a retail shop and return everything they don't like. It's often not even about sizing, or at least not exclusively. And this worked for a while, at least as long as the online shop got money from the government to cover losses while making employees piss in bottles.
We used to do this in fitting rooms, but free returns make your home the fitting room. Much more comfortable.
Electronics return rates are low, <5% I believe. I have a feeling books return rates are similarly very low. Clothing bought from brands is low, 5-10%, clothing bought from retailers is higher, 20-50%. Womenswear is much higher than menswear.
I wish it were that simple.
A European M is a different size between stores. Sometimes you get slightly different sizes between the same style garment, in the same color manufactured by the same company.
Obesity rates?
> You know that sunglasses come in sizes?
It would be weird if they didn't. Prescription frames and safety glasses also come in sizes.
> This smartphone absolutely does not look as in the marketing photos, it's all cheap plastic.
Everything is cheap plastic these days. Do your research and don't expect quality materials at budget prices.
> American M, Italian M, and European M are completely different sizes.
Right, because everyone is always shopping at multiple countries at the same time.
Buy it Thursday, wear it Saturday, return it Sunday.