‘Everything is gone’: entire Indian villages burned in ethnic violence | Hacker News Reader

‘Everything is gone’: entire Indian villages burned in ethnic violence

theguardian.com

35 pointslisasays29 comments

And PM Modi and Home Minister Shah are busy in election campaign in Karnataka state. Dozens of tweets for Karnataka in last few days, not a single mention of Manipur violence on PM's twitter account. BJP is power in Manipur.

https://twitter.com/narendramodi/status/1654784919607070721

To control law and order, you need to take action on the ground. Indian government has already deployed the army and paramilitary forces to control violence.

People in India have become tone-deaf to communal violence now.

It's become so frequent and obvious, that the ruling majority considers it as the cost of doing business.

We will destroy a portion of the population in the race to put India on the global map.

Actually its not the "cost of doing business", but an "enabler of the business" for right-wing/conservative politicians.

It's unfortunate that some political parties benefits when there is no harmony in people. Whether its White vs Black in USA, or Hindu vs Muslims in India and so on...

I'm from India, I beg to differ. Despite all the cacophony of news channels, it is much less lawlessness now, partly because people are more aware and focused on their lives.

However, to your point "destroy a portion of the population in the race to put India on the global map." I encourage you do dig deeper than what english media reports and find the truth yourself. For example, the reason for this violence is two tribal communities, X & Y in hilly area. X was enjoying benefits of reservation, while Y had shared same past and situations. Y went to court asking to be included for reservation as schedule tribe, which court agreed to. Immediately, rioting starts. Can you come up a logical reason why Y would create ruckus instead of celebrating these benefits? Now read the news again and fill in who is X and who is Y.

Okay please go ahead and tell me this isn't true.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/tolerant-muslims-can-be-coun...

This is an Union minister speaking at an RSS event.

This is neither the first nor the most vicious attack on India's biggest minority that I have heard of. This kind of rhetoric just seems commonplace today.

Full disclosure: I am an Indian too, living abroad now, but voted for the Modi government in 2014.

We cant be more diametrically opposite. I was in US now in India and didn't vote for Modi :D But what does that link add to point I raised? Looking at Baghel's wikipedia page, he is typical politician jumping parties to be in power. He'll say whatever suits his position. And if you want to pin it on RSS, at least cite their chief's position instead of a politician who has nothing to do with RSSS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvR8Gy8TDsQ (same thing is what media typically does, use sound bites from unofficial sources).

My only request was to look beyond headlines which (I claim) are biased and do logical analysis. Not here to debate or convert your ideologies.

Ok, let's do some logical analysis here.

This is the example of harshest punishment by BJP for a hate speech: /s

"Prime Minister Narendra Modi said he will never forgive BJP's Sadhvi Pragya for insulting Mahatma Gandhi by calling his assassin Nathuram Godse a true patriot." [1]

Has Modi taken any other action against BJP's Sadhvi Pragya for her hate speech?

Below articles list countless events of hate speeches by various BJP ministers and leaders. Can you please point out a single instance where BJP/police has taken any action?

https://cjp.org.in/hate-speeches-by-bjp-rss-vhp-bd-functiona...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-61090363

https://thewire.in/communalism/bjp-leaders-fringe-anti-musli...

[1] https://www.indiatoday.in/elections/lok-sabha-2019/story/mod...

Blanket blaming the media for everything does not help either. I almost never trust western media to understand the nuances of Indian politics. Everytime I visit home, I realize the Indian television media is always effusive in praise of the Modi government. The one exception might have been NDTV, but they had a management shakeup last year, so I am not aware of where their ideologies line up. Print media seems to be left leaning in general - Hindu, Indian Express etc. So trusting media at this point is a foolish exercise.

For every one BJP comment regarding safe-guarding minority rights, there are 5 which call for open discrimination. Even the video you shared, seems sympathetic at first glance, but Mohan Bhagwat has always prefaced comments with a subtle hint of "know your place in the hierarchy, and you will be fine". [1] I have never known Muslims to claim they were in any form superior. They are poorest minority in India. So that comment makes no sense.

So I only have to fall back on what I know from the people I am close to. All my Muslim friends feel less safe than they were 10 years ago. No one's come into their home and thrown them out, but they have to tip-toe around small things like eating beef, wearing the burqa, and offering prayers.

I suppose we have to ask ourselves, is it worth making people unsafe for practicing their faith in the name of politics?

We might fundamentally disagree on that point, and that is fine. In which case that is hand dealt for this country, and things will fall where they have to.

I appreciate your civility and I agree neither one of us is going to walk away from this thread having changed our minds.

[1]. https://www.outlookindia.com/national/is-the-rss-chief-mohan...

Sad stuff. The Hindu nationalism being pushed by Modi seems to be having more and more dire consequences for minorities in India.

Even this news report could not call it attack on minority (though they surreptitiously use images to build that notion), because reality is just the opposite - it is Christian tribes attacking local Hindus.

India has similar to affirmative action law (called reservation) which provides certain castes and tribes up to 60% of allocation in various governmental programs (like admission in university, promo in govt jobs, etc.)[0]. Kuki tribe (now all Christians) had this reservation for long but Metei (local Hindus who also qualify for Scheduled Tribe in that region) were demanding them to be included too. Recently, judicial court gave Meitei right to be included in this reservation system [1] and Kukis started rioting against it. The attack has been primarily from Kukis to displace Meitei from this region, and hence not share reservation quota. (um! does genocide ring a bell? probably not because genocide of Hindus in India is common thing. See Kashmir[2], Kerala[3], and currently going on in West Bengal).

I'll also add that in India, English media is very heavily biased against Hindus so one has to read regional language news or social media to find unbiased (unfortunately, unfiltered too) reports. To answer what you are thinking next - you can prove it yourself! Just compare what English dailies/channel report vs twitter layperson and regional newspapers do with evidence. Not just for this, for any (seemingly never-ending) forthcoming incidences.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservation_in_India [1] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/manipur-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malabar_rebellion

You are aware that lunchroom canteen at the Hindu had strict vegetarian policy until recently and you’re telling me they’re biased against Hindus?

And speaking of WB please tell me who was killing all the Hindus at Marichjhapi?

You referring to this? https://theprint.in/pageturner/excerpt/the-left-massacre-of-...

Why would Indian media be anti Hindu when the almost all of the 1. Electorate, 2. Government, 3. Corporations, 4. Media houses, 5. Rich are Hindu? I'd love to hear your explanation for that one. I don't disagree with your first point.

Thanks for your question. Curiosity is first step towards knowledge. I wish I was eloquent enough to put decades of history in few words. Best I can do is point you towards this book https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57313237-sanghi-who-neve.... Note, anything even remotely exposing the issue will be immediately tagged as nationalist, BJP, RSS, Modi etc. The book only is about personal experience of one media person, and doesnt dig deeper into what brought media into this state. It can be starting point and you can follow the references further.

Wow, great example. /s

So is Book that you linked written by the same Rahul Roushan who is the CEO of OpIndia, a right-wing news portal that has been found publishing fake & Islamophobic news on multiple occasions?[1]

The other editor of OpIndia is Nupur J Sharma, who was also the BJP national spokesperson in 2020 and her derogatory remarks against Prophet on TV sparked outrage in India as well as the Arab world. [2] [3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahul_Roushan [1]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/who-is-nupur-sharm... [2]

https://scroll.in/latest/1025549/iran-kuwait-and-saudi-arabi... [3]

The Nupur Sharma who works for OpIndia is not the person who used to speak for the BJP - two different people.

Just one example from recent past. The Wire is considered "reputable" english online news source but multiple times they have been caught fabricating grave evidence (even criminal) to plant stories against BJP (supposedly Hindu political party). Here was their latest gaffe https://www.theverge.com/2022/10/23/23419366/the-wire-meta-i.... Had it been any other country, such outlet would have been criticized to oblivions if not under legal action. But no! they are still the doyens of truth :) If BJP (current ruling party) even sneezes in their general direction, your ears will fall off hearing about fascism in India, even on HN :D

Are you trying to imply that there was no legal action taken against The Wire? Didn't BJP got The Wire office raided by police after that news report? [1]

BTW, mention of "The Wire" does not answer parent's question. "Why would Indian media be anti Hindu when the almost all of the 1. Electorate, 2. Government, 3. Corporations, 4. Media houses, 5. Rich are Hindu?"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/01/indian-police-... [1]

I am from India. This incident has less to do with Hindu nationalism and more to do with reservation and politics. In the state of Manipur, the majority (60%) are Meitei ethnic group. Out of those around 80% Hindu and rest are Muslim. The remaining 40% are from various tribal communities which are mostly Christians. The tribal communities enjoy a lot of benefits starting from government jobs to right to use forest land. So there is a demand from Meitei people to be included as tribal to get the same benefits. The current Christian tribal communities are against this as they will have to share the benefit with a much larger and better educated group. That is the cause of the tension.

Typical Hindu nationalism, the BJP won't care until it affects them.

An example of that is the endless anti-muslim rehotic, they only cared when the Arabian gulf reacted to a BJP PM attacking islam.

Apple is coming to town for Xmas production.

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