WhatsApp has been using the microphone in the background | Hacker News Reader

WhatsApp has been using the microphone in the background

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107 pointsblacktulip48 comments

This screenshot doesn't make any sense. Android won't allow a background app to access the microphone or camera. If it would, then there is an exploit in Android but I doubt it's a security bug since no one actually noticed it (Android notifies when an app access the microphone).

Also, if Whatsapp did somehow listen in the background , it seems like those are one-time accesses. WhatsApp would not benefit anything if it would listen for a very short time.

It seems like it would be a stupid action from WhatsApp, since they would have to go through the trouble of transcribing voice to text, and it costs power.

If WhatsApp would listen all the time, or for even a minute, the battery consumption would go very high. Doesn't seem feasible.

It seems like a bug in WhatsApp or a bug in Android's privacy dashboard.

Android will let you give an app permission to use the microphone in the background but this is not the default

It only has "While using the app" permission. I know there are voice recorders but I believe a notification of some sort is needed.

WhatsApp says it's an Android bug, Google says they're investigating. This would be a better url.

https://www.engadget.com/whatsapp-bug-is-making-some-android...

More likely an Android exploit WhatsApp is making use of instead of doing the right thing and reporting it to Google.

If so that will be revealed by the ongoing investigation. I'm going to wait a bit before speculating.

In general I'm skeptical of the value proposition. You can't record too much without tanking the battery life. They already have so much to target advertisements. What does a random snippet that probably doesn't even have any talking add?

> You can't record too much without tanking the battery life.

Is that an Android thing? I use Merlin to listen to birds and I can record for hours and only lose 20-30%.

depending on what you mean by hours that sounds like significant battery drain compared to screen off and asleep?

I mean it’s still recording with the screen off and I’m also using gps for tracking. For hours I mean like 4-5. I don’t think that’s significant at all. You would hardly notice it if you were actually using your phone.

Huh. I see a very significant drop in battery life if I use gps for tracking. My phone would last for days with the screen off, airplane mode, and no apps running in the background. Add tracking and it lasts maybe 10 hours. (I pay attention to this because it's a factor in determining how many battery packs to take backpacking)

>>> can't record too much without tanking the battery life

I disagree, a cellphone's microphone is a passive component don't see why this would affect battery life in a big way.

However when recording a good amount of data is being shuffled through ram, the cpu has to encode the wavestream, if stored the flash memory will have to do it's thing, if transmitted, the radios will have to wake up and run through all the data as well. The microphone does not exist in isolation.

This is not as power intensive as you would think though. If designed well these simple operations could last year's on a single battery cell. Most of cell phone battery use comes from transmitting and screen usage. Passive microphone and storage is nothing

> They already have so much to target advertisements.

Whatsapp should have nothing more than your contacts list.

WhatsApp has video calls. WhatsApp also has a significant user base amount illiterate people. They've built a clever intuitive system where you hold a button down to record a voice message. Obviously it shouldn't be recording without the user asking for it, but there's a reason for it to be an option.

Edit: I realized you might be referring to WhatsApp not having much ad data. True, but their parent company Meta does.

> If WhatsApp would listen all the time, or for even a minute, the battery consumption would go very high. Doesn't seem feasible.

Regardless if it's true or not, should WhatsApp or any other app spy on the user by using the microphone in the background, the "safe" (from their POV) way to do that would be to tap into the audio signal, save it somewhere at low bitrate while removing silent parts, then wait when the user starts an update or any network/cpu intensive job and compress+transmit it in the background. No need to keep the CPU at high load 100% of the time.

The URL should be changed to https://www.engadget.com/whatsapp-bug-is-making-some-android...

> Dabiri is not the first to notice the issue. WhatsApp blog wabetainfo highlighted the bug a month ago, describing it at the time as “a false positive” affecting owners of some Pixel and Samsung devices. They added that restarting the phone may be a possible fix. Meanwhile, Google has said little about what could be causing the discrepancy, but confirmed it’s looking into the matter. "We are aware of the issue and are working closely with WhatsApp to investigate,” a Google spokesperson said in a statement.

I'm waiting to see further details from Google before rushing to conclusions. Ideally the bug will be in the open source part of Android so we can confirm what was going on.

Whatsapp tweeted suggesting this is a bug. I am normally skeptical of claims by Facebook, but find their response very convincing. https://twitter.com/WhatsApp/status/1655989766431862785

Also notable that the screenshot is not from an official Android system screen, but from a third party app listed on the playstore as "privacy dashboard"

No, the Privacy Dashboard is an Android feature added in Android 12 - https://www.androidcentral.com/how-access-and-use-android-12...

Why do you find their response convincing? I sure don't.

Where can I see this? I have a recent version of Android on a Pixel 6, I have WhatsApp installed, but I didn't find this view on my phone.

Edit: Found it in the tweet replies: Settings, Security and Privacy, Privacy, Privacy Dashboard

Settings > Security & Privacy > Privacy > Privacy Dashboard

if this is real (seems it is a real screenshot)

how could/dare FB do this, hmm... interesting... like to learn more...

How is Android’s security model such a shit show that this is even possible?

It would have to have mic privilege to make a call.

But the system is configurable to deny, allow when app is in use, or allow at all times (even when the app is in the background).

I wonder what the Twitterer's setting was...

And it makes no sense to have an option to allow an app to start listening while in the background without the user starting the session.

You can be on a phone call with the phone in the background.

Think more on what the app does. It allows you to make calls. It needs access to the microphone.

But a user likely doesn't want to be forced to keep WhatsApp open as the front screen app while in a call. Maybe they want to open their e-mail or Calendar while in a call. That means the app needs to be able to use the microphone while running in the background.

Though I suppose you could argue that the app should not be allowed to start using the microphone while the app is in the background. Yes, I think that'd be quite reasonable.

What if you want to answer a call straight from the notification dropdown?

You can do that on iOS devices after you explicitly press a button to answer the call

> Though I suppose you could argue that the app should not be allowed to start using the microphone while the app is in the background

That’s the crux of the problem. Why should any app be able to start a listening session without the user’s explicit intervention?

Voice control. I can set-up Alexa on my phone to listen for the Alexa keyword.

Not that I have that enabled, but it is an option.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeI...

And a well designed OS would think about the security implications and it would orchestrate, “when a certain word is heard, launch $x”

Assuming you're an iOS user, that's a thread you really shouldn't pull.

Is there any app on iOS that can start using a microphone in the background without you explicitly starting it?

How does Android not warn users about this, let alone block it?

It should warn. Android has mic/cam/location indicators but I'm not sure if this is enabled by default.

Every once in a while people want to call me through WhatsApp (from abroad, or no cellular connect, but with internet). The first time Whatsapp asked me for microphone permission, I clicked "this time only". The next time, Whatsapp didn't give me that option. Either permanently allow microphone always (google android writes "only when using the app", but we all know that simply means "always"). Now I see why Whatsapp requires that, so it can constantly record me.

Who said "They trust me — dumb fucks"?

Who owns WhatsApp?

I love that you're being down-voted for accurately pointing out what an awful human Zuckerberg is.

I find the response to this depressing. Instead of an actual legitimate "Let's figure out if it's real, do some proper scrutiny and then get angry", we're getting the hydroxychloroquine jerks screaming - which does a great job of delegitimizing what could be a legitimate concern.

What does “hydroxychloroquine jerks” mean?

the opposite of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious friends

Probably a reference to angry conspiracy theorists on social media who lack genuine curiosity and instead jump to conclusions and go on the attack.

Or, perhaps they have some relevant experience and are ahead of the curve and are trying to draw attention to the subject, only to be lambasted by those who are not ahead of the curve, because they don't have the relevant experience, and have no idea about the subject?

You know, the guys who believe whatever BS the farthest right wing influencers peddle well before any evidence actually turns up. Like, I’m willing to say, it’s possible that some of those theories could possibly turn out to be true, but the people who believe them before any actual evidence are just idiots.

It was the same thing with the lab leak theory- they massively damaged that theory by being loudly racist and jumping to the conclusion before there was evidence.

Meta hasn't done anything to warrant the benefit of the doubt.

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