Vitamin K2 supplements fail to slow calcium buildup in heart
heart.org
heart.org
– short-chain menaquinone or menatetrenone: MK-4 – long-chain menaquinones: MK-5, MK-6, MK-7 (found in natto) and poorly studied MK-8 and MK-9.
The study does not mention which one of them was used in the study, it only cites the amount used being 720 mcg. Since the supplementation with long-chain menaquinones in dosages larger than 200 mcg per day is considered dangerous due to excessive blood thinning effects, it is reasoanble to presume that the MK-4 form was used. But MK-4 has been studided for its calcium redistribution effects in the body in clinical dosages of 45 mgs, which is two orders of magnitude larger than that of used in the study.
The article also conflates natto as being a source of K2 with being a source of the menaquinone (mostly MK-7 but also other long-chain menaquinones) but not menatetrenone. Truth to be told, there are better studies out there.
- Diosmin:Hesperidin 9:1?
- Rutin?
- Arginine?
- Curcumin?
- Ginkgo?
- Nattokinase?
- Serrapeptase?
- Lumbrokinase?
- Omega 3?
- Pycnogenol/OPC?
- Hawthorn berry?
- Kyolic?
Supplement and nutrition research as a disease prophylactic (aside from avoiding the usual suspects) is nowhere near as solid what we know about exercise and rest.
(Edited phrasing)
I’m not claiming this is right, but if it is both testable and measurable and not just unsupported claims, it seems it should get more attention. He’s also a cardiologist not an internet tree doctor. I don’t know if he’s a quack.
[Edit: https://drdavisinfinitehealth.com/2019/03/why-you-should-get... saying "When you get a CT heart scan [...] you’re given a score. What that score is, is the volume of calcium in your heart’s arteries. People go “Why are we measuring calcium?” One, it’s easy to see on a CT scan, so is thereby easy to quantify. [...] Calcium occupies 20% of total atherosclerotic plaque volume. So it’s a gauge, a dipstick, for the amount of plaque you have in your arteries. It doesn’t tell you about blockage [...] A heart catheterization would tell you stuff like: there’s a blockage halfway down, that’s blocking 70 percent of flow. [...] A heart scan tells you something like this: in this 1 foot long piece of iron pipe, there’s 273.85 cubic millimeters of rust — two different perspectives on the same disease. A heart scan gives you a score, a calcium score. Normal is zero. The higher the score, the more plaque you have, and the more likely it is that can lead to heart attack and abnormal symptoms. There’s no specific cutoff. You can’t say “at a score of 500 you likely have a 70% block”. You can’t say things like that. Though, the higher it does go, it does indeed suggest greater potential for a blockage, that blocks flow."
"Let’s say you have a score of 500, what now? Well, those of you who have been following along my programs, know that all the things that I do: the Wheat Belly Total Health program, the Undoctored Wild-Naked-Unwashed program — all those programs, the prescriptive part of the programs, came from my efforts to reduce heart scan scores, or at least stop them from increasing. If we do nothing, if you have a heart scan score, say, of 500, and you do nothing, the score goes up 25% per year. What if you take a statin drug, an aspirin, and cut the fat in your diet — cut the saturated fat, and exercise? How fast does your heart scan score go up? 25% per yearThose conventional solutions do nothing to prevent plaque from growing. [...] Those strategies that I put together over the years, and we showed that you could reduce heart scan scores, or at least put a stop to the continual rise. [...] You can actually see on the heart scan images, you see can see the plaque has shrunk (at least the calcium part of it has shrunk)." ]
Where else have you seen claims of lifestyle interventions that will stop the growth of calcium buildup/atherosclerotic plaque, or even reduce it, that aren't just backed by argument but by a $150 common proper hospital non-woo test that can show whether it's working or not?
Not managing high triglycerides or high LDL cholesterol will put you at a much higher risk than not taking any specific supplement. Some people are genetically prone to heart disease in which case monitoring your cholesterol and taking pharmaceuticals to manage it (if needed) can significantly reduce your risk.
The other thing you should do before you start popping supplements is get your diet right. Reducing sugar, eating less processed foods, consuming healthy fats (especially EPA), and intermittent fasting – these will all help dramatically more than taking any supplement.
Then there is exercise. Doing a 20-30 mins of high intensity exercise a few days a week will help reduce your resting heart rate, improve your metabolism and help maintain a healthy cardiovascular system.
The only supplement I think there is currently good evidence to take for heart health is high dose EPA, but it's pretty expensive... I use Pharmepa Restore personally which I take due to a family history of heart disease. High quality fish oil supplements with DHA and EPA probably have a minor benefit, while cheap fish oil supplements are probably mostly useless for several reasons. If you're going to take fish oil for heart health take one that's pharma-grade and high in EPA.
See e.g.:
https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(18)...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S02715...
The quantities involved are so small that they might as well not have bothered. In Asia, people have consumed +10mg of K2 for extended periods of time. 720 µg MK-7 plus 25 µg vitamin D or matching placebo for 24 months are laughably small. So small one can only wonder if they were trying the homeopathy where they keep diluting some concoction and claim it still has some effect.
Not even getting into the issue of whether D supplements are an adequate replacement from sunlight.
So, yeah, no conclusion...
Vitamin K also helps you clot.
I can't fathom what the line of thinking is here.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/ATVBAHA.117.309182
Especially since heart murmur is a symptom of aortic stenosis and magnesium is critical to regulation of the heartbeat.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/aortic-stenos...
https://health.clevelandclinic.org/magnesium-for-heart-palpi...
It isn't that hard to test people's blood, and yet the researchers prefer us to take it on faith that their sorting of control and intervention groups ironed all of this out? If I sound unreasonable, I don't apologize for it: public health decisions are important.
Blood tests would tell us if the randomization ended with the two groups being very different, but the prior probability of that is small. Blood tests would also tell us if there is some subgroup that benefits more from the treatment, but with an increased risk of getting the answer wrong due to smaller sample sizes, which would lead to worse public health decisions.