Defenestrations of Prague | Hacker News Reader

Defenestrations of Prague

en.wikipedia.org

35 pointsolalonde35 comments

“Fenestra” is the Latin word for “window.” It’s very similar in form and usage to “porta,” meaning “door.”

If the word “deportation” means being pushed out the door, then “defenestration” should, logically, mean being pushed out the window.

This is a word which, logically, should exist. And it does. But in practice it is used by Latin students who are looking for an excuse to use it.

Not a day has gone by where I have not been sensitive to opportunities to use the word "defenestrate".

We always joked that if you throw someone out a window without bothering to open it first then it is a transfenestration.

Wouldn’t that mean throwing someone out of one window and into another? Or is that confenestration?

This is the normal word used in French to say "pushed through window" (in a slightly more literal language, but not that much. You would hear it on the news on tv for instance)

These are well known in general Czech population (I mean the fact they occured, not necessarily all the details), and it is not uncommmon to use the verb "to defenestrate" as a joke when talking about mounting some form of protest.

Source: Born and raised in Bohemia.

They are also part of history classes in Germany. Especially the 1618 Defenestration, which started the Thirty Years War (arguably the most influential war in European history, even though that's a title with lots of contenders).

Influential? That war surely feels like a motivation for secular ideas in Germany, but the actual outcome in Augsburg was that rulers were free to pick the confession for their realm, hardly more than a confirmation of what had been happening before. A less bloody path to that lowest form of peaceful coexistence between Lutherans and Catholics could not have been very different. Secular ideas did not really become a reality before Napoleon shook things up. Other than that, what did the war change, outside of a population reset? I'd rather rate it surprisingly free of consequence considering the amount of destruction.

The modern idea of a state, with involatile borders and exclusive sovereignty on its land, people and agents abroad, is popularly traced back to the Peace of Westphalia [1]. At least as much as such an idea can be traced to any singular event.

It also caused the end of theocracy in Europe. And of course the massive population declines (over 50% in some regions) lead to all sorts of social changes. Without all of this, the Age of Enlightenment, which was just starting in the final years of the Thirty Year's War, might have played out differently across Europe.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westphalian_system

Theocracy ended with the acceptance that most people will end up eternally damned as there can't be two competing religions holding the complete truth and European population was quickly fractured into "us vs heretics" depending on the side one was on, whereas before everybody was part of the same church. That weakened religion and allowed rationalist thought to emerge.

Correct, sir, you win full marks for the Westphalian system!

One can argue about how things would have happened anyway, or were happening already, but the Treaty was where it all got formalized and agreed to.

Thanks, no idea how I confused the peace resolutions of Augsburg and Westphalia. Massive misconception considering that Augsburg was the century before, setting up the status quo that led to the war. And I did not even go blindly by memory, but apparently I found a path of selectively reading up that made it possible to somehow miss what should have been obvious.

"Baron von Hohenfall" was the funniest part of that article.

In terms of RMS defenestration means throwing Windows out of the computer: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/copyright-versus-community.en...

Shouldn't there be an article on the Defenestrations of Russia as well?

There actually is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspicious_deaths_of_Russian_b...

Yes, but those are kind of the opposite. The Defenestrations of Prague were the less powerful defenestrating the more powerful; the Defenestrations of Russia are (we presume) the more powerful removing the less powerful.

Is this the background of the "in soviet russia..." jokes?

The "in soviet russia..." jokes actually entered American consciousness through a beer ad in mid-90s which featured Yakov Smirnoff telling such a joke. The basic premise is older, though.

Edit: Wiki article on the type joke. I got part of it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Soviet_Russia

This reminds me of one of my favourite self-aware history geek tweets: https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1650216668272947201

Could someone explain the tweet?

The joke is a nerd is rattling on about history and people are bored by it and left the conversation. It's a classic nerd post, where someone tries to show how cool they are to other nerds by showing that uncool they are to "normies"

Having been following Sam Freedman for a while I'm pretty sure it wasn't about showing how cool he is - it's self-deprecating rather than self-aggrandizing.

Except if you're following him on Twitter you're probably thinking "omg he loves history so much just like me, how cool is he?", not "actually, yes, this person is boring and so uninteresting that people walk away from him while he's talking. Maybe I should unfollow him"

You're making some pretty big assumptions about a stranger on the internet there.

You are looking for details that support your premise, you are reasoning in circles. It definitely is not a good way to show how cool you are, even though there are many contrarians around here.

I'm not looking for details to support my premise, I am analyzing the tweet. I don't know if it is a good way to show how cool you are or not, but I do know that it is more of a humble brag than merely self-disparagement. Really, you can just look at the tweet replies to see how his audience took it.

If this tweet was really just self disparagement, you would expect the replies, if any, perhaps to be advice on how to hold a better conversation. Instead, you get people saying "I regret we don't hang out more", "Gosh, you make me smile", "This made me laugh, do the same to mine on various topics", and "I feel seen".

He's playing to his audience by making himself look uncool to the general public. There's nothing wrong with this. It doesn't make him a bad person. But the fact that someone couldn't clearly recognize this kind of boggles my mind.

His teenage kid asked him what "defenestration" meant, and rather than giving a succinct answer his interest in history took over and before he knew what he was doing he'd started giving a mini-lecture that involved the defenestrations of Prague, only to snap out of it when he realised people were so uninterested that they'd got up from the table and were doing other things.

If your mind works like mine, no, this is not about removing windows from buildings.

Cue Archie Bunker arguing with his daughter about guns. "Would you feel better if they were thrown out of windows, little girl."

I have often considered that the word should be exfenestration. The frequency with which I've considered this probably says a lot about me.

"de-" carries the additional sense of "down", so thrown down from a high window rather than thrown out through a low window.

I know! You can start a Wikipedia edit war about this.

Classic defenestration scene (from Braveheart) here: https://youtu.be/4S7QARslq74

Quite timely, I’m visiting Prague right now and this morning I saw the famous window at the old royal palace! Pretty high, though apparently those defenestred in 1618 survived the 70 metres fall

Never underestimate the usefulness of a dung heap...

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