Why the Ferrari F355 sounds so good | Hacker News Reader

Why the Ferrari F355 sounds so good

roadandtrack.com

80 pointspatrikcsak97 comments

hi, im a professional diesel engine mechanic and can easily explain what youre hearing.

Most italian/european sports cars (with the exception of Mercedes in the past 3 years because American customers) have machined their crankshafts as "flatplane" cranks. Flat-plane cranks, no matter what firing order they have, will always alternate from bank to bank. This yields optimum exhaust scavenging and thus doesn't require the more complex header primaries that have to cross over from one bank to the other. Due to their design they don't need huge counterweights, which is why they rev up so quickly. The downside is that they suffer from secondary vibrations and have lower torque.

Americans typically machine closer to if not dead-on a crossplane crank or cruciform crank. the four crank pins are positioned in two planes, offset by 90 degrees. Typically the two outer pins are perpendicular to the outer and the two end pins are in one 180-degree plane. exhaust gas scavenging isn't as efficient as with a flat-plane crank, but that sound is worth it. This design necessitates larger counterweights to achieve a proper engine balance. The result is that you don't have the secondary vibration problems associated with flat-plane cranks. But they also don't rev as fast or as high. pick crossplane when you want torque imo.

I personally understand that a euro flat-plane crank is superior in its efficiency and power for racing, but the crossplane sound just melts my cold American heart when i hear it.

Hi, I’m a longtime student of the American culture and I think the primary reason why Americans love it so much is because it temporarily masks their tinnitus and not because it melts their cold hearts.

Approximately 10 percent of the U.S. adult population — over 25 million Americans — experience some form of tinnitus. And an even larger percentage is suffering from hearing impairments.

Broken mufflers and loud engines mask the tinnitus sounds and finally they can relax. This is also the reason why they prefer to hang their Freeways in the air, in the middle of the city. And why their cafes are unbearably loud with the sound of refrigerators competing with the loud music.

I'm not sure if this is a joke or not. I know lots of young people, myself included, who don't have tinnitus and also like V8s or V-twins motorcycles in my case.

Why do you think Americans suffer from tinnitus more than other nationalities?

Maybe longtime students of the American culture speak very loudly.

Because of all the loud cross plane exhausts.

Americans like it because when you sit in a big V8 and smash the accelerator it jolts you forward and pins you in the seat while the engine is roaring like a lion. It's fun, like going down a hill in a rollercoaster. That's really all there is to it. Hearing it makes you think of the fun yourself.

So why do most Americans hate or at least dislike electric cars then? Which does the same, even more so?

Who says Americans hate electric cars? Teslas are selling quite well here.

But you have to realize America is enormous--its over 2600 miles to drive end to end. Our highway system and infrastructure isn't setup to completely replace gas or diesel with electric for long term trips. It's getting much better, but I suspect reluctance to get an electric car in the US primarily comes down to cost and range anxiety.

Teslas have great acceleration too!

this is actually a really great comment. Mercedes is pivoting to the crossplane kinda for this reason (the american market.) it makes a V6 sound like a V8, keeps their engine design euro spec compliant, and helps deliver torque which their twelve SUV lineup desperately needs considering most weigh in at over two short tonnes. crossplane also helps mask turbo whine which most red-blooded americans associate with their massive trucks, not sport SUV offerings.

Mercedes is running cross-plane cranks in their V6 engines because V6s are cross-plane out of necessity. That applies to all engines with cylinder counts which are not exponents of 2.

A "dinky", "small-displacement", "underpowered" European or Japanese sports car will do the same job. There are many replacements for displacement. The American preference for big, heavy vehicles with big, heavy engines is just aesthetic.

You can't get the sort of low end torque with a turbocharged i4 that you can with a large displacement V8 even if they both have the same peak horsepower. More low end torque give a better throttle response and different characteristics than more high revving engines.

Thanks, this reply is better than the article's

I found this video to be an excellent explainer on the differences between cross and flat plane cranks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyMoZoqkPA

It additionally talks about the unusual pattern used in modern voodoo engines in the Ford Mustang (which is also mentioned in the article). The video is very similar to this article.

Thanks for the yt link. So that's what 11mpg sounds like.

Re: Ford Mustang [1]

[1] https://www.pocket-lint.com/cars/news/ford/131151-ford-admit...

That's an excellent video and helped me understand a lot. Another great video is this one from a guy who created Engine Simulator which not only simulates the physics but the sound of engines as well. In this video he covers the difference between flat and cross plane engines: https://youtu.be/NBBwva3NZ6o

The engine simulator was discussed on HN too: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32423102

Yes, a crossplane V8 with Flowmasters is probably one of the most unmistakably American sounds. I find the high-revving import sound far less enjoyable; it's smoother but the high pitch is fatiguing.

On the other hand, I also like the sound of two-stroke diesels.

I live in the US and have the same preference as far as cars go, but I literally cried happy man tears the day that I got my four-cylinder Honda bike (with a flat-plane crank) and listened to it as I wound it out in first gear. There's definitely room in this wonderful world for both :-)

Thanks for summarizing the main points of the article so concisely.

The article also points out that GMs LT6 flat-plane V8 for the Corvette Z06 has a sound different from the F355, this apparently being deliberate design choice made by choosing which harmonics to emphasize in the exhaust system.

You say that flat-plane engines do not require the complex header primaries that have to cross over from one bank to the other, but AFAIK typical road car and truck V8s do not have such headers[1]. Would the purpose of such headers be to give a cross-plane V8 scavenging about as good as a flat-plane one, all else being equal? In that case, would the cross-plane engine lose most of its distinctive sound?

I would be interested in hearing the difference between otherwise comparable flat-plane and cross-plane V8s at the same RPM.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossplane#Sound

Not the one you were responding to, just a car nerd.

> You say that flat-plane engines do not require the complex header primaries that have to cross over from one bank to the other, but AFAIK typical road car and truck V8s do not have such headers[1]. Would the purpose of such headers be to give a cross-plane V8 scavenging about as good as a flat-plane one, all else being equal?

Yes, but as you point out deployments of this technique are limited due to packaging, cost, and even other performance parameters. See the GT40 “bundle of snake” headers for an example.

For a notable example of the other performance parameters, exhaust header lengths are tuned to the powerband of the engine such that shorter headers are more efficient at higher RPMs and longer headers at higher RPMs. This can even get into resonant effects as with intake runners. It’s difficult to design cross bank headers short enough to suit modern high-rpm engines, with the exception of the “hot-V”, exhaust inside intake outside, concept deployed on German V8s from BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche on the 918 (though the latter is a flatplane crank).

> In that case, would the cross-plane engine lose most of its distinctive sound?

Yes

There's this youtube channel (William Moser) that makes different firing-order engine sound simulations using an analog circuit of some kind

crossplane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpswVBOC8lk

flatplane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r7X9L8_pS4

I think that you should mention that this is specific to 90 degree v8 engines - other engine designs can have similar crankshaft / firing order trade offs but would not be described as “flat plane” or “cross plane”.

For context, here's what it sounds like:

https://youtu.be/MCCYMys6aDw?t=890

(14:50 in case the time link doesn't work.)

And from the video embedded at the end of the article:

https://youtu.be/zUU0aW3yyMc?t=32

(32 seconds in.)

Meanwhile, here's the Ford GT40:

https://youtu.be/KJJ0nIbn_Ts?t=120

This is a replica GT40 with a modern Ford 5.0 Coyote V8:

https://youtu.be/6g3Ay83JLJE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Modular_engine#5.0_L_Coyo...

Now let's listen to a Porsche 917 (flat-12):

https://youtu.be/5m8JrGD_ph4?t=82

I'll take that 917 any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Now let's listen to the ugliest sounding motor ever:

https://youtu.be/CIwq71KZqbA

ICEVs are absurd by modern standards, but sonically speaking the 917 has nothing on the 787B:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjwwV20iZYE

I guess you either like the buzzy sound that rotary engines make or you don't. As someone who's been to the 12 Hours of Sebring a bunch of times, I'm not a fan.

I love the sound of that wankel engine

4-rotors not so bad, most of the sound in that video is straight cut gears

Ferrari had a 2 liter V8 in the 208s that sounded way cooler than it was.

My list would probably include the Pagani Zonda for Mercedes v12 goodness.

Also the Carrera GT and the Lexus LFA are v10 cars known for their unique wail.

Love the sound of a screaming 6 like a Honda cbx as well.

Haha that rx7 video is so unfair, all you can hear is the straight cut gears. 4 rotors definitely sound better but it's still a cool sound imo https://youtu.be/MSbMeLE8qf0?t=19

One of my favourites is the Honda CBX 1000 6 cylinder motorcycle:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=MBbskqcgs_o

Great videos, thanks!

About the second one, I'll leave this one here in case someone wonders why does the pilot hit the break and throttle pedals at the same time (heel & toe): https://youtu.be/xeoLRWCNGcA

IMO nothing beats the sound of a watercooled Porsche flat 6

Anyone who has heard all these cars and then more on a racetrack, especially at the Hunaudières straight in the 24h of Le Mans will assure you the best ever sounding engine was the Matra V12:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tcPgE40t4dc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jWmdIKXKh-g&pp=ygUJbWF0cmEgdjE...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xxWJO-SZKW8&pp=ygUJbWF0cmEgdjE...

Even the contemporary Ferrari 312 and 512, which were also sounding glorious, couldn't quite match it.

Obviously a video will never provide an accurate representation and the current remaining examples have a much lower rev limit than at the time to preserve the engines.

Sound like a higher-pitched TIE fighter.

I've got to add my favorites too.

Rob Dahms 4 rotor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOmDj9iPs5o

This 240z: https://youtu.be/9PAHenR3JgQ?t=10

Le mans hybrids that sound like world destroying alien spacecraft: https://youtube.com/shorts/HXD5Gao4F5k?feature=share and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqyGJTioXnc

I love the sound rotaries, but they are easily the most painful to the ear in regards to hearing damage. An open exhaust rotary is like a percussive area denial weapon. I had one on track with me and I lifted when we went down the straight together, as they just about blew my ears out.

My money is on the 360-degree crank Honda V4s as in the RC30/NC30 bikes: https://youtu.be/uTxe1_MPdiw

I love my 1991 VFR400. The Tyga exhaust takes it to a whole new level. Worth every penny. The extra 3500 RPM on top of the RC30 are nice too. Plus an NC30 can be had for about 1/5 the price of an RC30.

https://youtu.be/f-1HwvLLNEI Does a good job capturing the exhaust along with the straight-cut gears in the valvetrain and the intake noise.

The VFR had such a great unique sound, could hear them approaching in the city. I had a 1998 which didn’t last too long but it was fabulous sounding. Only four cylinder bike I owned, it’s been twins all the way for me otherwise and for my ears, nothing beats the V-twin grin :) But older VFRs before they got heavy are wonderful.

On the subject of the article, I hooned an F355 around Silverstone and while it sounded good, it was dull to drive at lower speeds and the Elise spanked it for fun.

The VFR400 ran for three generations (NC21, NC24, NC30) from 1986 to 1992. The successor was the RVF400 (NC35) which had a similar (same? different cams?) engine to the NC30 but a different intake and tank and inverted forks. It only ran as late as 1996. There were complimentary VFR750s for some of those years, including as late as 1998. Was your VFR a 400 or 750? If it was a 750 you had one highly desirable bike. From what I understand the last Soichiro himself developed.

Regarding the heavy weight in the later 1990s the VFR name was applied to sport touring bikes that had V4s but not big-bang 360 cranks. My NC30 weighs less than 400lb wet and is definitely not a touring bike.

Agreed on the V-twins. I would still love to have a RVT1000 but those command too high a price when Ducati Superbikes can be had for half the price.

I had an 800 and it was slow and heavy to my mind, was not devastated when it was stolen.

We didn’t see too many 400s in the UK, I think they were all unofficial imports but was a long time ago to remember.

Mate has a VTR1000 Firestorm if that’s what you meant? Outstanding bike, extremely hard to keep under 100mph, fuel tank was genuinely stupidly small. The SP1 and 2 were the superbikes IIRC and different beasts to the Firestorm, never had the pleasure of riding one of the superbikes. But yes, a Duke 998 over an SP1 I think.

The RC51 was the successor to the RVF750R (RC45) which was the successor to the VFR750R (RC30) and was built to beat Ducati at their own game in the superbike world championship. In the US the RC51 was called the RVT1000R, in the UK and Australia it was called the VTR1000 SP1 or SP2. The VTR1000 Firestorm (SuperHawk in the US) is a different bike, not intended for racing homologation but designed for the street. The VFR800 was a sport touring bike, very different from the RC30. The NC30 and NC35 VFR400s were sold legitimately in the UK after several years of grey import but were unreasonably expensive. My 1991 VFR400 was originally sold in Japan (1991 was JP-only), was imported to the UK (grey) and made it to the US as soon as it was 25.

These bikes were the end of an era. After the RC51 Honda went to the inline-four CBR1000RR Fireblade and never looked back.

I have exactly the same bike as well! :)

Cool! I have had trouble finding Bridgestone Battlax tires for it. I still have a decent pair on the bike but they won't last much longer. There are some tires available domestically that are close but nothing is quite right. I have had great luck getting parts from Rick Oliver and occasionally Aliexpress.

They are from a sweet spot in history. There was adequate technology to make them reliable and high performance but inadequate technology to truly perfect suspension geometry and engine layout. The big-bang four was intended to reduce rear wheel slip by maximizing dwell time between impulses. Modern bikes can make far more power and let computers do the traction control. But the VFR400 is a carbureted fully mechanical bike. The ignition is electronic but no more complex than points. Just more reliable. It's a real joy to own, maintain, and ride. It isn't even fast, but it sure feels like it's doing something!

Where are you located? Here in the US they're incredibly rare and except parts that were used on other bikes that were actually sold in the US, you pretty much have to order from the UK. I had to order my BT-090's from thevisorshop.com and ship from the UK. Stupidly expensive...

My NC30 is actually an EFI conversion project running Megasquirt. I got tired of trying to get to the carbs... ;-)

I’m in Seattle. The shop I bought it from had two. They specialize in importing “classic” foreign vehicles that were never sold here. Mostly kei cars from Japan.

When I did the valve adjustment I asked for parts for some other Honda that was sold in the US. There’s only two diameters of shim so once you find a compatible model you just order parts for that. Same for oil filters and non-exotic parts. Other than that you’re calling Rick.

My carbs work perfectly and I refuse to ask or answer any further questions on the topic ;)

Thanks for the tip on thevisorshop.com.

I'm intrigued by the EFI conversion. That seems like a big project. If you want to chat more send an email to my username at the domain in my profile.

For reference, here's the Tesla plaid: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZlBfE6PWQU0

Last year, I was driving through the mountains, behind a motorcycle that sounded so good I had constant goosebumps from it. The sound of it echoing between the mountains, slowing down, accelerating for like 30 minutes was such a special experience. When I was behind it, I didn't know what it was, but I had to find out. When we came to a village, we both stopped at the same traffic light, next to each other, so I could see what it was. It was an Aprilia RSV4. I will never forget it, and the sound it makes. I think the guy on the bike saw the OMG look on my face and we both had a laugh.

Here's two videos of how it sounds. I just had goosebumps again watching them a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3WdxhXlLpc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY_Bca6158s

> The sound of it echoing between the mountains

And sadly, annoying thousands of people during its trip

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't thought of it that way.

Waking babies, causing anxiety attacks, generally disturbing the peace for many many people all so a single person can go vroom.

I almost entirely always say we should err on the side of more personal freedom, but loud motorcycles need to be completely banned.

>loud motorcycles need to be completely banned

Agree 1,000%.

As a motorcycle drivers myself, I think that the obsession of my fellow drivers with producing loud noises is childish.

I really enjoy the acceleration though (when it's safe to e.g. accelerate away from a traffic light or when getting on the freeway).

The feeling of way faster responding control, and being exposed to wind, smells, sounds makes it a very relaxing immersive experience for me.

> I really enjoy the acceleration though

I dream of an electric motocycle that can accelerate like hell and emit almost no noise. Just like Tron or something.

Check out Damon Motorcycles.

V4 motorcycles are my favorite sounding bikes! Also arguably the best engine configuration for bikes as well. 3 of the 4 manufacturers in MotoGP use v4s and they sound amazing.

I had a co worker with a 6 cylinder Honda Valkyrie. I don’t believe it’s possible for a bike (or maybe even a car) to have a better sound: https://youtu.be/eoo5f7FkuDU

I'm seriously contemplating a Tuono V4 (the naked, more upright version) as my next bike in a few years... I just wish that they made it in the same obnoxious Acid Gold finish as they do the 660 because I'm a sucker for loud colors.

It's a flatcrank, right? This simulation should sound similar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r7X9L8_pS4

I was always partial to the sound of the Alpha Romeo GTV6: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pJpN5pGCrCw

> Now let's listen to the ugliest sounding motor ever:

Which happened to win LeMans the very first time they tried, humiliating all the Europeans and subsequently being banned

Good? I'm just imagining what life would be like if all cars sounded that way. And, as anyone who ever had to drive a car with a broken exhaust muffler can say, it's also nothing special...

Yup. Made me think of https://nitter.net/GretaThunberg/status/1608056944501178368

> And, as anyone who ever had to drive a car with a broken exhaust muffler can say, it's also nothing special...

Loud isn't the goal, the tone is. The Lexus LFA is a perfect example of this[1]. It's not extremely loud for a car of that caliber, but it's lauded as one of the best sounding cars ever made. Poorly designed exhaust (or no exhaust in the case of your broken muffler) on an otherwise great sounding engine almost always ruins the tone and makes it unbearable to listen to. Bad exhaust on a bad sounding engine is just miserable.

[1] https://www.hotcars.com/heres-why-the-lexus-lfas-screaming-v...

> Loud isn't the goal, the tone is.

I wish this was actually the case in practice. There s definitely something special and musical about some ice engines, a true sensual experience.

But then in practice, people who actually value that (as in, pay money), their cars just ends up being loud and obnoxious.

So where are they, all these quiet, beautifully aurally tuned cars (emphasis on quiet)? Not everybody is driving thos3 lexusses just judging from the racket.

> So where are they, all these quiet, beautifully aurally tuned cars (emphasis on quiet)?

You won't notice them if you're not interested in cars, but there are tons of them and Lexus/Toyota are responsible for quite a few. The RC-F, IS500 and LC500 sound amazing, as did the GS-F and IS-F. Toyota also made some iconic engines such as the 2JZ-GTE in the MKIV Supra and the 2GR engine that Lotus used in the Evora.

> But then in practice, people who actually value that (as in, pay money), their cars just ends up being loud and obnoxious.

It's the other way around: There are plenty of cars that sound beautiful unmodified, and aren't unreasonably loud, but they tend to be the most expensive cars on the market.

So people often modify their cars to sound different, but getting a refined sound that way costs a lot of money. The cheapest modifications make the car sound terrible, so you're more likely to notice the cheap poorly modified cars than anything.

At the end of the day considerate people are going to drive any car quietly in a quiet setting. Inconsiderate people will start their car up in track mode at the crack of dawn on a Sunday morning and leave it to warn up for 20 minutes, and bounce of the rev-limiter going around town.

This reminds me of a fun little experience on a production shoot. The producer had hired a company that specializes in recording the sound of a car. This wasn't just the sounds of the engine running or driving, but the sounds of the car handle from outside and inside, the sound of the door opening/closing again inside/outside. Apply this to every aspect of the car. Pedals, shifters, ignition switches/buttons, trunks, and on and on. Basically, a sound designer's wet dream. This shoot was not meant to have any dialog delivered, it was all about the car, so these were the only sound team available. When a typical snafu with scheduling was announced, we needed to get a quick sound bite from an actor but gear was unavailable. When the producer asked the car company to help out, they were aghast at the gall to even ask them to demean themselves. Ultimately, it was recorded with an iPhone voice memo.

The final mix of the car was amazing though

Is the final recording available online anywhere?

not that i know of. this was 10ish years ago, and i was only on the camera department. i only saw it because one of my buddies worked the sound mix so i got to see/hear it at his place.

It's also because the engine has a 90-degree V-angle, so the cylinders on the left bank are 90 degrees out of phase to the cylinders on the right bank. Each bank is effectively a 4-cylinder which fires once every 180 degrees, so having the two banks 90 degrees offset means the engine fires evenly every 90 degrees, producing a higher-pitched sound. In audio terms, there are no audible "1x engine rotational frequency" or even "0.5x engine rotational frequency" components. It's perceived as an octave higher than an inline-4 at the same RPM.

I'm surprised at how similar it sounds to a Honda S2000. It's making my day to see a Hot Version video on the front page of hacker news, though. They make the best car content imo, and I never would have expected to see it here.

I love that Hot Version still produce content, and it has barely changed in decades. Perfect enthusiasts content.

s2000 has a higher rev limit than most cars, which helps contribute higher frequencies. One of the best sounding 4 cylinders ever made.

My thoughts exactly. The F355 sounds like an angry, big 4 cylinder. Very much like a race car (but in street form). Love it.

oh, I thought that was the sound of gasoline being wasted.

I never realized how much car noise bothered me until I got an EV; it's silent at speed and you hear the wind.

I have no doubt people actually love the sound of the engines, but I think it's an acquired taste through association with fast cars. But once you get used to fast cars without the noise, those ripping engines are just bothersome.

We have a 1947 Willys Jeep. It is the objectively worst vehicle I've ever driven, but it sounds magnificent. I've not had it into third gear yet, at least in high range. Second is quite fast enough, thank you very much[0]. I assure you it's not just speed.

[0] How fast is that? Who knows; the speedometer doesn't work, along with many other things.

I always been into internal combustion engine noise for some reasons. I like the harmonics, the vibrations, the feeling of power. It’s wasted energy but it’s fun.

But when I’m driving to the kindergarten at 7am, I want silence and peace. When I’m part of the traffic going back home and you have one guy making so much noise for fun while barely moving, I wish for bad things. When you are in the mountains and you hear some middle-aged men enjoying their vibrators with wheels, I wish they would drive electric.

I think we should eventually restrict the noisy and smelly cars to racetracks and special events. Like we do for horse carriages.

I would gladly make noise in a Ferrari for a few laps in an industrial area far from people.

I'm similar; I do like nice sounding engine but not necessarily want it loud

Engine noise is a tiny part of it, the sound of the tires and wind is a significant component. A petrol powered BMW 7 series is for example quiter than a Tesla model S. While they have a roughly similar weight, shape and size.

It's mostly sound insulation and build quality that affect it for higher end cars.

Funny, because it doesn't sound good to me really. I prefer more of a rumble (like that from my Subaru's flat boxer engine) than a drone sound like the Ferraris.

Do you also enjoy the sound of a BMW boxer twin motorcycle engine?

Subaru's exhaust note is the textbook definition of drone. To the point that people are sticking steel wool in their stock exhausts: https://www.subaruforester.org/threads/2014-stock-wrx-exhaus...

I get exhaust notes are subjective, but I've found Subaru owners are the only people who appreciate Subaru exhaust notes, and at which point it starts to feel a bit like a sunk cost thing.

I expect I'd be annoyed by that sound too if I drove the WRX but I don't. I drive a Forester and don't hear any exhaust note - just the rumble from the engine up front.

> As a four-stroke engine only fires twice for every rotation of the crankshaft

Should be the other way around, each cyinder fires once every two revolutions.

Yup, I spotted that two.

He correctly divided by 2, though.

I own the model just before the F355, the Ferrari 348. A big difference between the two, in addition to the F355's much better handling, is that the F355 has got 5 valves per cylinder (355 is for "3.5 liter / 5 valves per cylinder while 348 stands for "3.4 liter / 8 cylinders and has only 4 valves per cylinder). The music the 348 produces is already beautiful (especially with a non stock exhaust) but the F355 is indeed one of the best sounding V8 of all times.

Italians know how to make cars sing. Sadly they don't much about electricity/electronics nor reliability ; )

I already know why in general, but a similar detailed breakdown of the sound differences between inline 6 and V6 would be fun. The RB, the JZ, the Australian Barra, all iconic sounding motors to enthusiasts.

A breakdown of the difference between the raw sounding RB and clinical JZ would be cool too. Though owning an RB I think the rawness came from the terrible factory timing optical encoders, since upgrading that to more accurate kit it sounds much closer to a JZ.

One of my favorite videos of a Ferrari driven hard is Derek Hill driving a 250 GTO on a hill climb. Note Derek is the son of the former Formula One champion Phil Hill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHgD0wJGcR0

Many "sports" car have engine noises intentionally exaggerated.

This is why a Maserati crawling along at 10 MPH sounds like it's engine has a pair of bricks inside and is about to explode.

I'm partial to the sound of the Merlin

Why do some people think loud cars or machines sound good? Do you want hearing damage? What makes that attractive to some humans? Have you just forced yourself to like it?

I absolutely hate it along with other loud sounds. If you are in the middle of nowhere whatever. But I hate people driving around my suburb in their loud stupid “exotic” sports cars or bikes, it just signals you are a POS.

I like good sounding ones, sadly loud often comes with that, especially on aftermarket where nobody bothers to make "reasonable volume but nice sounding"

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