Can you elaborate?
If I have a lightning cable and a device with a lightning port, I can plug it in and not really think much about it.
If I have a device with a USB-C port and a USB-C cable, I have no idea whether I can charge at full speed or even charge at all.
As an example, I plug my Xbox controller into my PC via USB-C. It keeps it fully charged. Recently I tried to plug in my USB-C headset into the same cable and it didn’t charge at all. In fact my headset died shortly after I unplugged it (after “charging” it all night), which was a bit of a pain. Turns out it can charge with my laptop charger or my iPad charger but not the Xbox cable plugged into my PC.
Maybe this isn’t a totally fair comparison, but it’s my personal experience.
Most of the time, you avoid problems of "PD device hierarchy" by using a proper charger (i.e. a device that only has the functionality to charge other devices).
It’s ultimately not a big deal, and it’s surely something I can learn to intuit. But I think lots of consumers (I think about my poor mother) would benefit from a clearer labeling scheme on the various devices, ports, chargers, or cables.
The problem is with the "most", which means you can't count on it.
I have usb-c headphones that can be charged with my hp usb-c laptop charger (which is a "proper charger", I guess, since it only does charging) or from a regular computer usb port. They don't pretend to have any high-powered charge mode (manual says 3 hour charge time and "usb charging").
My usb-c ecig won't charge from that. It will only charge from either my pc's usb-a port or random "low power" usb phone charger.
I haven't tested it with any of the fancier high-powered adapters, since I don't own any. But, clearly, usb-c charging ports are not that universal.
Sounds like a "Fake" usb-c. Actually not fake because the usb-c is the connector, not the standard behind it
So I'm not surprised it doesn't charge, it's a "pretend USB-C" thing from China
It actually is a Chinese brand, but not some one-off brand bought off Ali Express. It's a device bought from a reputable store in France with a name that I've seen around for several years (Vaporesso). Sure, that fact, in and of itself, is not enough to guarantee that corners haven't been cut and that the product is actually up to spec.
But, as a random consumer, how am I to know that it's "a pretend USB-C"? It looks exactly the same as my headphones, comes with the exact same-looking cable. There are no markings on it. The usb-c ports on my laptop have a bolt icon next to them, but its usb-c charger doesn't have any marking. They also don't say it shouldn't be used with anything other than the laptop it came with, and actually is able to charge my headphones and my mom's usb-c phone.
Even though I've kinda followed the talks about PD, negotiation, etc. its still not clear to me why this particular combination doesn't work. I was under the impression that, lacking any negotiation, ports should default to the basic 5V 500mA. So my fat laptop charger should be able to at least trickle-charge the e-cig.
To prevent this, a USB-C charger is only allowed to provide power on the cable once it senses a downstream device on the other side. A legacy USB-A to USB-C cable always applies power, though, as this does not provide any danger.
Some low-quality brands think they are smart and leave out the two $0.001 resistors needed for the device to advertise itself. This means it will only work with a USB-A to USB-C cable, and not a real USB-C charger.
The only difference now is that you also have the option of using other cables and adapters if you want/need to, as well as use your Apple charging stuff for charging other things.
You don't have to. You can. As the previous comment mentioned, nothing stops you from buying all the accessories and cables from Apple at a premium like you used to with lightning.
Here I can charge my laptop (although slowly) via the usb-c on my PC. All other devices work fine too.
And I’ve had more lightening cables break in the last 2 years than I have had lightening cables in the last 7 years.
I have cca 10 different usbc devices, and use all their provided cables to charge all other accessories. All works as expected, charges fast, transfers fast. The key is to not cheapen out and buy the cheapest crap. Just like with anything else in life.
Considering all the devices you listed need less than 60W, they should charge with all cables. If they do not, the manufacturer gave you a broken cable which does not follow the USB-C specification. Blame the manufacturer, not USB-C.
Do you think a mum and dad at home know the difference?
My dad had a USB-C cable for his android tablet. When I got him an iPad he tried using the same cable. It wouldn’t change. That makes the whole point of USB-C pointless
Defending the stupidness of USB-C cables just makes you a fanboy.
The biggest problem is that manufacturers don't follow the spec. You are supposed to physically label the cable with its capabilities, but literally nobody bothers to do so.
If you pretend you only need 60 watts, there is only one kind of cable.
> My dad had a USB-C cable for his android tablet. When I got him an iPad he tried using the same cable. It wouldn’t change. That makes the whole point of USB-C pointless
That wasn't because of multiple kinds of cable. That was defective equipment. They're not the same problem.
Why do you so desperately try to defend rubbish hardware like USB-C?
I'm not defending the defective hardware.
The cable, or one of the devices involved, isn't following the spec.
And the spec was ignored.
You think removing unrelated cables from the spec would make manufacturers do a better job at basic charging cables? I doubt it.
The specification is very clear with regards to chargers: a charger with more watts is always better than one with fewer watts. For any pair of chargers, if charger A provides X watt and charger B provides Y watt, if Y > X every device which can be charged by A can also be charged by B. This means a laptop charger will always also charge your smartphone - although the opposite might not be true due to the laptop having a minimum power requirement.
Lightning isn’t that much better though. You can get lightning to USB-C cables so you can plug into various bad devices and have other USB-C problems, though you likely won’t try to plug into a monitor for example.
There’s maybe an argument to be made about the ports too. I think it would be harder to clean dust/fluff out of a USB-C port and maybe they could be more fragile too because of the spike in the middle of the port.
It still seems to me like Apple probably also like that they have a lot more control over lightning. And they already have USB-C on iPads and computers so they clearly don’t think it is totally terrible. But there are a lot more iPhones in the world than other Apple devices and I can imagine eg Apple having to spend a load of money on customer support, etc, due to the USB-C issues, or getting blamed when things go wrong because of the cable or device on the other end.
I think it would be better if the possibility of connecting two devices with a cable implied that they would work together, but I’m not sure how that could be done without either more ports or more expensive cables/charging bricks. And I don’t know why a USB-like organisation would have more success at ensuring things follow the standards than USB currently have.
The simple solution as done elsewwhere across many technical endeavors is to mandate standards, that's why the ISO exists.
For example, if I plug a 220/240 Volt appliance into a power wall socket that's rated at either 220 or 240V then it should work properly—one doesn't expect say 400V out of said socket.
That countries mandate a given voltage ± a specified tolerance that's well defined is specifically to avoid malfunctions/equipment damage.
A manufacturer that goes against mandated standards should suffer the consequences.
If other industries have no problem with mandated standards then why should the IT/computer industry be excepted or any different?
Due to common or widespread usage, a facility outgrows its origins and or its patents expire. Thus its original developer is no longer in charge—or can no longer fully manage its ongoing development, which is the current situation with USB (remember it's happened thousands of times before). Governments, though their standards bodies, then step in to protect consumers, etc. by ensuring standards are maintained (weights & measures are a classic case).
We are now seeing the first instances of this intervention process with USB. Unfortunately, the association responsible for USB has not kept up with the times (this usually happens because members cannot agree and the lowest common denominator becomes the released standard).
To make matters worse, USB got off to a bad start, it was a dog of a 'standard' from the outset, for starters it was ridiculously slow, 12mbps if I recall, which was about a fifth the speed it ought to have been given the then state of hardware performance. I recall being at the trade show when it was released and laughing at how slow this 'toy' was, we all joked about it. The trouble is that as this ill-conceived standard started from such a low base that it's never caught up, every release has always been too slow. Moreover, the mechanical aspect of the standard has always been inadequate, USB plugs and sockets are mechanically flimsy and slipshod and of inadequate design.
Unfortunately, as USB has become the widespread standard and seeing that industry has not managed its development well, it's little wonder government has stepped in. What we're now seeing here is just another instance of a well worn pattern.
Edit: just to be clear, if the standard had been managed well then Apple would not be able to offer Apple-specific enhancements as they would not comply with the specification. If the standard falls under a government authority (which is often an ISO), then adhering to the standard is mandatory. The advantage of this is that it puts all manufacturers on a level playing field. If this were the situation here then it would be unlawful for Apple to offer nonstandard USB enhancements.