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Comment by Apocryphon | Hacker News Reader

Title is clickbait, which this entire thread has fallen for. Tipping is mentioned in two paragraphs out of an entire article worth of eminently reasonable requests and terms. Who knows what the actual context is. Maybe this was a half-hearted idea that was tossed into a long list. Bloomberg just chose to zero in on it as a title to make the union seem deranged.

> The workers’ negotiators also want Apple to adopt a tipping system, letting patrons offer gratuities in increments of 3%, 5% or a custom amount for in-store credit-card transactions.

> “This will allow thankful patrons the ability to express gratitude for a job well done without any obligations,” the union wrote Apple. “All monies collected through this manner would be dispersed to members of the bargaining unit biweekly based on any hours worked.”

That’s it. The entirety of the rest of the article is not focused on tipping.

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Why is tipping needed for a union negotiated salary?

Ideally we need to move away from tipping. It’s like a hidden tax everyone needs to pay. They’re supposed to be union so they can negotiate a fair wage. I do not like this descent into the tipping space.

It’s fine to be so vehemently opposed to it on principle, but thanks to technologies like Square, Clover, etc., tipping is easier than ever. It has become a completely mainstream aspect of the shopping experience. Blame it on those payment providers.

So in practice, building a tipping screen into the payment system is as seamless as Apple Pay and for most customers will not amount to anything more than perhaps a moment of self-doubt or embarrassment as they tap “Other amount > 0” before going to the next screen of the flow.

The anger in this thread does not match the reality of what will actually happen if this was to come to pass, which it probably won’t anyway.

I'm opposed to tipping on principle. I understand it when workers are not organized and have no recourse to fair wage but have to turn to tips. I cannot understand it for a union shop. Negotiate a fair wage and say no to tipping dark patterns in society. I really don't care "how technologically easy" it is. That is just exacerbating the problem.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just saying the tech has enabled it to be ubiquitous. And when that happens, you’re going to get bloat all over the payment process- if it’s not tipping screens, it’s supermarket POS systems asking you to donate to random charities. At some point you need to take it as less of a moral social affront and just screen it out.

If the union wants to be taken seriously, then it needs to make serious proposals.

The rest of the proposal is dog-bites-man, which isn't really news. This is so far out in left field that of course it is news. It may be a small piece of the proposal, and perhaps even a negotiating tactic, but it makes the union look unreasonable and impossibly out of touch.

It’s one minor point. I think HN’s hatred of tipping culture has been triggered and all of this is a disproportionate response about a point that will likely get dropped in the first round of negotiations.

I don't think it is just hatred of tipping culture--although that is there too--but also a general skepticism about unions. Unions have a pretty severe credibility problem among significant pieces of the HN crowd, and this proposal is so absurd that it makes the problem worse.

As I said elsewhere, I'm fully in favor of them having a union and negotiating reasonable things. This particular idea is BS and whoever came up with it should be embarrassed.

Tipping on electronics purchases is deranged.

I wonder if the tipping system is envisioned for Genius Bar work, which is more like a specialist consulting service rather than purchasing merchandise.

It is their job. They are not private consultants. Like others have said, if the pay is too low, they should focus on that. Genius bar service is a free perk for customers. There is no payment for most of those interactions so adding a tip would create a whole new payment flow and make the whole experience much less customer centric. It would be a serious detriment to the Apple Store experience for customers. They must know there is zero chance Apple would agree to this, so it must be a toss-in as something the negotiators can 'give up' in a fake show of good faith.

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