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Comment by nunuvit | Hacker News Reader

For anyone with a budding or casual interest in fountain pens, the Lamy Safari is the way to go. They're plentiful, inexpensive, rugged, and have plenty of nibs, cartridges, and refillable cartridges to experiment with. Just pick your color and start using it to figure out what you value in a pen.

Don't let the grip shape scare you off, you might like it more than you thought, but if not it won't ruin the value as an experimentation platform. Note that unlike a ballpoint you'll need to experiment to find the right combination of nibs, inks, and papers.

Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf so you don't feel ashamed and disappointed in yourself every time you use the pen. Plus it'll turn the flat shape of the nib into an advantage.

Edit: People seem to like the Pilots. I haven't tried them, but they seem to also be inexpensive and have good nib and ink options.

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In my view, Lamy Safari is way overrated. Don't get me wrong, it's far from bad, a pretty consistent pen for the price. But the ink dries fast-ish if you don't use it, and especially, the cartridges are proprietary so you're tied to the brand's cartridges and ink colors (there's a piston converter, but converters, meh).

A Pilot Metropolitan is approximately the same price and at least in my view, it's better as it uses standard international cartridges. A TWSBI Eco is more expensive, but not by that much, and it's an absolute reliability monster.

Can you also use cartridges with the TWSBI Eco? A first pen should give you the option.

I haven't tried the Pilots, but the standard cartridge could change my recommendation to them.

No, the TWSBI Eco can only be filled from a bottle.

The TWSBI Swipe supports both cartridges and converters.

Thanks for confirming. You really need to try both to find what you like.

No, the Eco can only be filled with a piston mechanism, and yes, you have a point. While I love piston fillers, it can be off-putting for a complete beginner, so maybe better as second pen than as first :) The Pilot Metropolitan is great as first pen, IMO.

Who downvoted you? It's a valid perspective.

> [the Pilot Metropolitan] uses standard international cartridges

I'm afraid not; Pilot cartridges are sui generis, and not compatible with either Lamy's own proprietary design or with "International Standard" cartridges.

That said, there's nothing wrong with proprietary cartridges per se, given that fountain pen cartridges in general are a pretty niche good. I like Pilot cartridges for being refillable and resealable, especially since Pilot makes a lot of really nice inks that only come in bottles, but unless you're anxious to do a lot of refilling that doesn't really count for much.

The Pilot Metropolitans sold in Europe use standard international cartridges. The ones used in the US use proprietary Pilot cartridges.

No kidding! I had no idea.

Me neither (that the American version used proprietary ones), otherwise I'd have specified.

I will always lend my voice to a vote for the TWSBI Eco. I have used it after leaving it in a drawer for months, and it just starts up without issues.

Agree on the Lamy Safari drying out very quickly; I use it about once a week, and it is always dried out at first use. I know Montblanc can be overpriced, but it's the only pen I have that writes immediately without skipping after a time, even if I haven't used it in a month.

My daily drivers are a Lamy 2000 with a TWSBI Eco in different color ink for highlighting/commenting; I also carry a Pilot 823 on me as a backup to the Lamy 2000 but I have never been able to get used to the vacuum mechanism.

In case you want to try something different, I have several Platinum Century #3776. They are much cheaper than the typical Mont Blanc and they can go unused even for several months without any issue. My favorite pen functionally speaking (not so much in terms of design, a bit too conservative for my taste).

I'd go one step further and suggest a Pilot disposable fountain pen. Their nibs are remarkably good, and you're only out around $2 if you dislike them.

And if you like them, well then, have fun with your new hobby!

I second the recommendation to try Pilot first, though I haven't used any of their recent disposables. Pilot nibs are just remarkably consistently good. As a starter I'd suggest the Pilot Metropolitan with a medium nib (as Asian nibs tend to be a little finer than European nibs with the same designation) although my personal favourite ‘cheap’ pen (that is, in the Lamy Safari price range) is the old-style Prera (in the US, from JetPens).

I've got both a Metropolitan and a Prera, and I can second (third?) this recommendation. Fantastic pens.

True, I actually did that myself when I impulse bought one at an art supply store since it was at the checkout counter. It's a great way to find out if you're interested in experimenting with pens, or if you just want a no-fuss tool and have a passing curiosity in fountain pens. Do this before getting a non-disposable.

I was giving away Pilot Varsity pens (a.k.a. V-pens) to people around the office that were interested. Amazon sells them in boxes of 10, and yes they have a surprisingly good nib for such an inexpensive pen. They also have decent capacity, as the thing is basically a non-refillable ink tank with a novel felt feed (similar to what markers use).

The next pen I recommend as a starter is usually the Pilot Metropolitan, or the TWSBI Eco for those who want to dive into bottled ink.

The problem I have with the Safari is that I don't write much and they dry out before I use them much. My Kaweco Sport lasts for ages, and I think it's to do with the fit of the screw top compared to the relatively loose clicking mechanism of the Safari cap.

I use a refillable cartridge on my pens and have dialed in about how much ink I should load at any given point in time based on my writing habits. It might help to play around with that.

I preferred the Pilot Metropolitan, with a Medium Nib (equivalent to Fine in Europe). It was my goto pen for a number of years, despite getting more expensive ones.

I saw the recommendation for the Lamy Safari in a lot of places. Just want to say I actually hated writing with it. Maybe I got a bad one, but I doubt it.

I've had a few Safaris and they're easily among my favorites, but personally it was common to get misaligned nibs with them, or extreme variation between two different nibs of the same grind (so I don't think the problem of "getting a bad one" is as unlikely as portrayed). The alignment problem occurs with all brands to one degree or another IME, and it's worth learning to make adjustments using a loupe or macro camera for anyone who's interested in the hobby.

There's also a widespread problem of counterfeit Lamy Safaris out there, which usually come in subtly different packaging and/or have subtly different markings on the pen body. These are widely considered to be inferior, and fairly common if ordering somewhere like Amazon.

This is fascinating to me, as someone naive to the hobby. Can you describe what you're looking for and what adjustments you'd make? Are there two halves of the nib that need to be at the right spacing and alignment for proper ink-wicking or something like that? Does that affect the smoothness of the interaction with the paper too?

I routinely work under a high-magnification dissecting scope to build experimental equipment for neuroscience, but I never considered that people would be doing this to optimized their writing instruments.

Pretty much all of what you wrote is a consideration, but everyone probably has their own preferences (and in some part it's affected by writing angle and penmanship habits). Certain nib styles are better suited to different ways of holding a pen. And there's a lot more to it, since different papers react in different ways to different nibs, and inks are another wide-ranging variable.

I think many people get drawn into the hobby for the endless pursuit of matching pens, papers, and inks, or trying to optimize for various characteristics across different combinations of the above. Of course a lot of people don't bother and just find one that works well enough and leave it at that.

I agree, I've had huge variation in the nibs as well. I did some research on how to polish the nibs a bit and was able to tune the ones that didn't perform as well.

Even the gold nib needed tuning. :(

You should be able to feel a _consistent_ feedback as you write with a proper nib. Two of the three nibs that I bought didn't perform out of the box. And a fine nib was too dry. I bought some brass spacers to separate the tins a bit.

I have two. The first one was purchased as part of a box kit from Bespoke Post. That one is fantastic all-around. Then I misplaced it and purchased a second one from Amazon, apparently with a different nib. I prefer the Pilot disposables to that one.

Decided to try the Pilot Varsity disposable, when I saw the price was so low (3 for ~$9). Thanks for rec!

It feels like a rolling ball with a nib, and that pen was my go to pen for a long time before the Pentel EnerGel replaced it.

I assume you mean the nib wrote scratchy. Honestly, troubleshooting that issue is something you have to be prepared for if you have a fountain pen. I haven't used enough of any nib to know if some of them have genuine design or quality control problems, or if the volume of reports online is due to people expecting a more plug-and-play experience.

Where you source nibs from matters a great deal.

Amazon? IME, more commonly bad batches.

Small independent retailers who live and die by satisfying their niche enthusiast customers? Yeah, they're fantastic, and they're generally passionate about what they sell.

It's extremely rare to get a nib that isn't tuned pretty much perfectly if you buy a brand new pen made by one of the Japanese big 3, Pilot, Platinum and Sailor from an actual fountain pen retailer (online or brick and mortar). I've never gotten a remotely bad nib from any of those nor have I heard of someone getting a remotely bad nib from one of them.

If you buy from eBay or used elsewhere or for that matter Amazon, you do sometimes get a bad nib because someone has tried to tune one of these nibs and botched it and then decided to try and sell the pen new.

A lot of times, with Pilots especially, if they're sold for the Japanese domestic market the tines are extremely tight and the pens write very dry, to the point of needing adjustment for writing in roman-derived script. I have a few nice Pilots and of the high end ones bought from Japan, a little bit of skipping or dryness was common out of the box.

Most nib complaints can probably be resolved with proper adjustment and maintenance. If people were doing that, I'd expect the complaints to be more focused on how the nibs defy their efforts, as opposed to how the nibs write poorly.

I really love my Lamy Safari, but tbh my experience is limited. What did you follow up with?

EnerGel Alloy RT Gel Pen, Medium Point, 0.7 mm

(copy/pasted from my amazon order)

I've been using this pen for a long time and I just love it so much.

Btw, just got a 3-pack of Pilot Varsity disposable fountain pens and it's pretty nice. It feels like a rolling ball with a nib, and that pen was my go to pen for a long time before the Pentel EnerGel replaced it.

A big problem with Safaris is they dry out quickly. There are many great pen varieties nowadays, none of which have this common fountain-pen shortcoming.

Safaris are suitable for people who write daily; others should look elsewhere.

Do you have a recommendation?

Three I know about are the TWSBI Eco and Diamond, and Pilot’s disposable Vpen. They’ve already been mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

Beyond those, do research. Fountain pens drying out is a major problem that catches newcomers off-guard. When you can buy EnerGels for peanuts, fountain pen manufacturers really need to up their game to stay remotely competitive with other pen types. And many don’t.

You do need to cap fountain pens because the inks are water based.

If you need to take quick notes and drying out is a problem because the pens are uncapped and capped a lot, get a Lamy 2000, vintage (not new) Parker 51 or a Pilot Vanishing Point. The first two have slip caps and hooded nibs so cap and uncap really quickly and don't dry out due to the hooded nib. The Vanishing Point also has a hooded nib but you click it like a ballpoint pen to expose and hide the nib. Also don't use quick drying inks.

If drying out is a problem because you don't write frequently enough, there are two solutions. Solution 1: Buy a Platinum (Preppy for low end, or 3776 higher end). It has a really good cap. Both will take a long time to dry out. Or even better, write more frequently.

Old Parker 51. (Emphatically, do not touch any current Parker.)

Pilot Kakuno is cheap, relatively durable and pretty good quality. I would take it over a Safari in the sub $25 category.

The Kaküno is a small pen, intended for the hands of children. But it is outstanding at that price point, and it uses the same cartridges/converters as the Metropolitan.

My kids have them and will use them until they outgrow them.

A few years ago I bought a Pilot Metropolitan fountain pen. It's decent, but the ink evaporates really quickly.

Last year I bought an inexpensive Platinum Preppy and it doesn't have this problem at all. No idea why the Pilot is so bad or if I can fix it, but it basically makes the pen useless to me because I do not write daily. Even if I did use it daily, the disappearing ink means I'd have more maintenance to deal with than I really want.

The other thing many people don't think about is paper quality. Fountain pen ink really soaks through many types of paper. It took me a while, but I finally found a yellow legal pad brand that is great with a fountain pen. Mintra canary premium legal pads are inexpensive and nice to write on.

Indeed.

For newcomers: if you get a pen that seals properly (so it won’t dry out), consider getting a fast-drying ink; you won’t end up with streaks across the paper and on your hands. I found Lamy T52 acceptable.

I have a number of fountain pens but the one I keep coming back to is the Pilot Kakuno, they are super cheap but they just feel so good in hand especially for sketching and drawing.

Pilot somehow pulls off miracles with their steel nibs. The Kakuno has the same nib as the Metropolitan or the Explorer, and they're great. Even better, the Kakuno can (just barely) fit the CON-70 converter for a nice big ink reservoir instead of the wee CON-40.

Granted, refilling cartridges with bottled ink and blunt syringes works really well, too.

Kakunos are awesome. Really good nibs. Awesome value for money.

Agreed, love the Lamy Safari. I got the Al Star to up-scale it a bit. And, then a gold-nib later. But, honestly, like the steel more!

I also tried the Pilot Metropolitan, for some reason this awful pen is recommended as an alternative to the Lamy. Doesn't even compare, got rid of it fairly quickly. The ridge along the grip was very uncomfortable for me.

The Lamy grips are pretty controversial too. It looks like there are a few other pens that use the same nib and feed as the Metro. Do any of them lack that ridge?

I'm partial to the metropolitan pens. But, realistically, any pen is a fine starter nowadays.

I am a huge fan of the larger nibs. I tried getting into calligraphy, but haven't managed the eye for it, yet. Tons and tons of fun, though.

I got their „studio“ and it’s pretty decent for its price

The lamy safari is fantastic and only about $35. You can find a black one on Amazon for $20.

> Also check out the unrelated free Handwriting Repair pdf

Link?

I assume your parent is referring to this:

https://penvibe.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Handwriting-R...

Yup, that's a copy of part of it.

I suspect it would be something by Kate Gladstone:

https://handwritingrepair.info

Nope

The grip is the best part of the pen!

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