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Comment by nullityrofl | Hacker News Reader

It's already well known that many EU nations have capabilities like this.

The French: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electro... The Germans: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-arrests-foreign...

Lets not forget that most of the EU is wrapped up in the Pegasus spy scandal: https://www.dw.com/en/eu-watergate-the-pegasus-spyware-scand...

Playing holier than thou with intelligence services is a losing game. There is no holy intelligence service and there is no nation without an intelligence function.

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These are all examples of EU countries doing domestic, not foreign espionage (which is also despicable, by the way).

You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials.

The question here is how can you call yourself an ally in good faith when you spy on your allies?

The fact that it has not been leaked is not proof of the negative. The US had been spying on Europe for 50+ years before Snowden and the US continues to spy on Europe right now without any further leaks -- by your logic that must mean that the US isn't currently spying on the EU, right, or there would be leaks?

There's plenty of evidence of the EU spying on allies. I can't tell if your implication is "Europe can't maintain smart enough computer scientists and engineers capable of spying on the US" or "Europe has the moral high ground and doesn't spy on allies".

Both are naive.

> You can search all you want but there is no evidence or proof whatsoever of EU countries spying USA top government officials.

Nonsense. https://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squar... https://www.dw.com/en/german-intelligence-spied-on-white-hou...

The first article is just a claim with no evidence provided.

The second is based on some yet unreleased documents that Der Spiegel claims to have reviewed years ago.

Still no evidence to be found, only claims.

It's a claim made by the head of the agency that did it. If you're not willing to take their word, I think you're being stubborn and obtuse and this will never be a productive discussion.

If you're willing to believe a US whistleblower -- whose evidence you can't personally verify -- you have to be open to believing the _former head of the agency_.

> The question here is how can you call yourself an ally in good faith when you spy on your allies?

Familiarize yourself with this concept https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

Thanks for being pointlessly condescending.

Realpolitik are the reason why I consider the USA and NATO a bunch of hypocrites, altho the USA surely championed the practice.

They fill their mouth with good intents, justice, peace and all that is good in public but act like criminals behind the scenes.

At the very least, countries like Russia and China seem to be much more open about their practicing Realpolitik.

Russia is literally claiming that the Ukraine is run by Nazis. Not that there are people there who see the Nazis as a lesser threat than the Reds, but run by Nazis today.

That's a lie so big it's visible from space.

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