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Comment by egeozcan | Hacker News Reader

> More than 1 in 10 (14%) had ever been forced to have sex

14% of all the teenage girls are raped? How is this possible?

I'm really not the one to grab the pitchfork first for sure but this... I don't know... How are we okay with this?

In previous cases, the questions regarding rape have been phrased to be incredibly broad, to the point of straining credulity. I can't say where these particular statistics have come from, but prior statistical nonsense here has poisoned the well for me.

Question was:

>Have you ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when you did not want to?

> the questions regarding rape have been phrased to be incredibly broad

If forced sexual intercourse does not fit your definition of rape, perhaps that's what's being too narrow?

Can "forced" in this context be interpreted as "peer pressured" by the person being interviewed?

I'm not here to doubt the statistics. But when I was young peer pressure was a problem when it came to sex.

I don't know if I would consider "I was pressured by my peers to have sex, but I didn't really want to" as rape. Or at least, I don't know who the rapist would be in this case.

And it affects men too. First time I made out with a girl, I really didn't like her (as in I found her boring and not attractive). But my friends were pressuring me towards it. A few shots of vodka later, and I did what I had to do.

1) I think it is also pretty bad, when mental health is concerned. When you (assuming a teenage boy) were verbally forced to have sex with a girl you didn't lose anything but per Christian culture in the US a girl would. It's just a bigger deal.

2) in this case it is "physically forced", see the paper.

1) At least were I came from, to my understanding, girls were as much pressured by their peers as boys, if not more.

2) I didn't read the paper, but if it is "physically forced to have sex", that is as unambiguous as it gets. Thanks for clarifying!

1) Maybe you missed the point, I agree there is pressure in both cases but the consequence is different

2) I didn't read it carefully but I ctrl-Fed to find these details

I'd like to see the survey question(s) they used to derive this. I recall when the oft touted claim that "1 in 4 college females experience sexual assault" included anyone who answered that they'd had sex under the influence of alcohol.

Good news for you! The very first link in article body goes to a very ctrl-Fable PDF. If you are actually interested, in less than a minute worth of effort you'd find those pieces of info on pages 53 and 82.

I'd have to assume that this could include anything from what they felt was some amount of coercion or pressure to have sex up to rape.

'Some amount of pressure or coercion' is still rape; no matter how you use language to minimise it, it adds an amount of 'non-' to the 'consenual'.

Not going to play semantics here. There is definitely a different level of trauma for a person to experience for something they are physically forced or threatened by force to endure than something they are convinced to do even if they would have otherwise not. It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

Valid point, but we are talking about those very victims you are worried about insulting here. Girls who were physically forced to have sex.

And to reply to those who say that boys are also raped, yes. But only 4% of males reported that.

Sure, there are different levels of trauma in different incidents.

That doesn't make the less-obviously traumatic incidents okay; they're still very bad.

> It's insulting to victims of the former to pretend otherwise.

There's nothing insulting to victims in acknowledging other victims. There is something extremely insulting to victims in refusing to acknowledge any harm to them if it doesn't meet your arbitrary standard for significance.

I have the lower sex drive in my relationships and experience a concomitant pressure to have sex when I don't want to. I'll often say yes to avoid a fight, avoid upsetting my partner or to stop them from nagging me. This has never seemed like a big deal to me although it is sometimes a nuisance. How does this square with your PoV? Is it rape? Maybe it doesn't count as "real" pressure?

I'm not trying to minimize the issue or trip you up here. There is obviously enough coercive and violent SA taking place for it to be a major social issue no matter how broad the definition is. I'm trying to figure out how pressure as a sufficient condition for rape squares with the lived experience of people like myself who do frequently feel pressure to have sex.

Your partner shouldn't be pressuring you into having sex; that's wrong of them, and you deserve better.

Coerced consent isn't consent [1]; the fact that there are different levels of violence and pressure involved in some cases of coercion doesn't mean that the less-obvious levels are okay.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yUafzOXHPE

If I took this attitude then I'd be excluding myself from relationships that are a net positive in my life. Mismatched sex drive is genuinely not a big deal for me. Often we're both on the same page and that's great. But when we're not, it's not a huge deal for me to have sex I don't want just to keep the peace. In my view, it's no different to other forms of compromise and sacrifice in relationships. Furthermore I think this is common in relationships. To maintain a stable relationship, low libido partners often do have to "make an effort" and manage some of the pressure that comes from dating a higher libido partner.

IMO in an ideal world there would never be any pressure or obligation associated with any interaction. But in the real world, "okay" must have a wide enough margin to include situations that aren't ideal but are limited in terms of harm caused and moral responsibility of participants. It can't be that I am a rape victim for not wanting to hurt my partners feelings by sexually rejecting them. Some pressure is surely okay.

> not wanting to hurt my partners feelings

Is not the same as

> to avoid a fight

> to stop them from nagging me

There is a subtle but important difference between 'having sex for reasons other than immediate desire' and 'pressured into having sex'.

IME this dividing line exists more in theory than practice. Maybe your partner feeling upset or rejected leads to a fight about something unrelated the next day. Or maybe it's easier to rebuff some nagging than to deal with an insecure partner who is good with boundaries but will still feel deeply bad about the rejection.

So-called "duty sex" has been recognized as a complex topic where consent is concerned. Surely this is a continuum rather than yes/no. I can't go around calling an ex-girlfriend a rapist because she nagged me for sex now and then.

You can not assume and look at the questions that were asked.

>Have you ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when you did not want to?

There, so you won't have to assume wrongly.

Sorry about the snark but my sister was raped 4 years ago. The rapist is still free. At least his daughter (same age as my sister) know about it.

Holy. damn. It is also up 27% since 2019. I hope US researchers and lawmakers take a long look at this as one of possible causes together with social media.

To the doubters replying to this comment I have to say, anecdotally, those stats check out with the people in my life. It’s a lot more common than you think. And no, I’m not talking about people who have sex and then regret it.

It's probably based on the same flawed study I saw recently, which asked about sexual molesting, grouped "creepy staring" and "unwanted advances" into the same group and then reported it all as rape.

You can find the asked questions in the very first link of the article.

It's way better than just saying "It's probably the same study they've talked about on TV!" and you can really tell "I've done my own research!" without lying.

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