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Comment by galleywest200 | Hacker News Reader

Only 24% of my state (Washington) has gas stoves. We have already begun the process to ban Natural Gas into new buildings. Nothing major is happening and the sky is not falling.

If you are curious about your state's ratio of gas to electric stoves, you can check here [PDF warning]: https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/state/...

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Washington is unique in its hydropower positioning. It's easy to electrify in Washington because it makes sense to do so. Hydropower is cheap and clean.

Unfortunately it's not a replicable model for the rest of the country.

Germany has almost no hydropower, no nuclear power anymore, but German government is continuing to insist a similar ban on natural gas in all new buildings should be introduced (or maybe already in action).

The US makes its own natural gas. Germany imports, and until recently despite warnings to do so, from Russia. It’s a different situation.

Germany thought they'd have cheap Russian gas from Nordstream. Now they're looking to move manufacturing to the US because energy is too expensive.

Look at it this way, even is CO2 levels are primarily anthropogenic, most of the world isn't willing to do anything about it substantial (i.e. Global South). In which case the Western economies martyring themselves isn't going to change anything.

OTOH, if climate change is not primarily anthropogenic the West martyring itself with expensive green energy decisions is a disastrous mistake.

What is the game theoretical optimal move here?

Are you seriously chasing the global south while the west is responsible for this mess 90% while still abusing the global south for cheap labour?

> OTOH, if climate change is not primarily anthropogenic the West martyring itself with expensive green energy decisions is a disastrous mistake

Yikes

No comment

Global South, i.e. BRICS+, sells and consumes huge amounts of oil.

Russia has proven mineral reserves of $75T, most in the world by a fat margin. If they stop selling their oil they're done, and so are China, India, Japan, and parts of Europe. BRICS don't have the ability to drop oil without catastrophic impacts on their food and energy systems.

>Yikes

Climate science is hard. The margins of error are wide. They already have a track record of being overly aggressive on predictions.

NY has a lot of hydro and nuclear power.

WA is drastically reducing the amount of hydropower it produces due to the negative environmental impact it has on local waterways

As a WA resident, we also see weeks of subzero temperatures every year. And we've had power outages that can last a few days (if you're lucky) to multiple weeks (rare but not unheard of). Knowing that I have natural gas as a backup source of heating my house is great, and I've had to use it multiple times already in the last 3 years.

Having a backup method of ensuring my pipes don't freeze and my family is (mostly) comfortable is great. But if you're an electricity purist who hates cheap, available natural gas for some reason, enjoy sitting in the cold while your house destroys itself. Or spend thousands of dollars more on a device that BURNS GAS to run your electric furnace anyway

Most of Washington State lives around Seattle, which has never recorded subzero fahrenheit temperatures:

https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/WA/Seattle...

https://patch.com/washington/seattle/monday-was-seattles-col...

Which should lead you to conclude that I, in fact, don't live in or around Seattle? Contrary to what our governor would have you believe, there's a lot more to WA state than King county.

Not that any of this matters to the conversation about gas, my points still stand. Last winter we hit -10F, and there were power outages, so having gas meant having heat when it was extremely cold.

What about if the gas lines have cold-related outages ?

Ultimately you need to be ready to be self-sufficient. I live in a cold climate and run my house on a heat pump, with an oil furnace backup, AND a wood stove with plenty of wood as a third layer.

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