Hacker News Reader

Comment by WXLCKNO | Hacker News Reader

I've been paying for a lot of things for my friends recently as there is a very large imbalance in wealth between us which is more recent.

These are my best friends for the 20 years, same gang and they would never ask anything of me and always offered to contribute.

I still felt sort of akward about how I was approaching it. Even if we tell each other everything and are transparent about money.

I wanted to let them know that I don't care about the money at all, it's just the experiences that it will allow that matter to me and giving back to family and friends makes me feel good.

However I have started just acting more normally and not insisting on taking care of everything,I think people feel better this way.

So this article frames it nicely for the things I will be able to contribute still in a way that makes sense.

I imagine that for people with newer or less strong friendships it must be even harder to manage.

View on HN

I think if it's long standing friendships there's certainly more wiggle room. Even to the point that you ought to just be able to tell them to let you know if they feel you're being obnoxious about it.

But often it's also not even amounts, as long as it's reasonably discreet and you create a plausible excuse for why you're paying, and there's a sense of back and forth. With friends or girlfriends I know earn less, I've usually made a point of saying that when I choose or suggest where to invite someone, I prefer to pay and I'd appreciate if they let me, and if they insist on paying for something they can pay for things when they choose the venue. There's a tacit "because that lets each of us pick somewhere that fits our cost level" in it that remains unstated, and the give and take helps make it feel more even as long as it's not too blatant and in your face and you never make a point of how expensive anything you pick is. It also works best if you also pick cheap places sometimes.

>each of us pick somewhere that fits our cost level

This is the best, most wise answer and will last through long friendships.

> I've been paying for a lot of things for my friends recently as there is a very large imbalance in wealth between us which is more recent... I still felt sort of akward about how I was approaching it... I wanted to let them know that I don't care about the money at all,

What kinds of things are you paying for, though? Consider there's a subtle, unintentional message if you insist on paying for their $20 burger and drink: "This $20 is a big deal to you, but not to me." Unless they are dirt poor, they can probably pay for themselves for most things.

Myself, I have friends with 10x less money (self-employed), and 10x more money (huge stock options and the company popped) -- in both cases, we round-robin the check at dinner. Now mind you, we're not going to French Laundry...

My friends with 10X less money can't afford to eat out, so yeah, I offer to take them out if I want to go out with them.

> Unless they are dirt poor, they can probably pay for themselves for most things.

Are you saying $20 for a burger and drink is trivial unless one is "dirt poor"? That doesn't match my estimates of the distribution of wealth in the US, and certainly not the world.

It is, but a $20 lunch should be considered an occasion or treat and not a daily driver. Just because it's not a daily driver doesn't make it trivial.

If most people eat lunch out once a week for $20 - that's about $1000/yr. That's trivial for most people if it's part of their social/entertainment expenses (eg even making $30-40k), but it's okay that it might not be trivial for all people.

I don't think spending an extra $1k per year is trivial for someone making $40k per year.

Non-trivial spending includes expensive mandatory expenses, like rent/mortage, insurance, maintenance, etc.) Spending $20 on a lunch once a week (if that's what I wanted to do) is trivial, both in cost and importance.

Obviously trivial expenses are the first to be optimized away when a budget crunch occurs, because they are also trivial to remove/stop. It's hard to delay rent or a car payment withour real consequences, but there's no real consequence to not eating out lunch anymore.

I interpreted "trivial" as negligible, too small to cut from the budget, even in a crunch. I see you're using a different definition. However, I also think that $40k per year is a perpetual budget crunch, so not really a crunch at all.

Typical lunch in NYC can pretty easily hit $15-20.

No, it wasn’t about the price of a burger. My point was that just because you made a million dollars and your buddy didn’t, don’t start treating him like every simple, common social expense must be a financial burden for him.

> every simple, common social expense

I don't think a $20 burger and drink is a simple, common social expense for everyone. Certainly not on a frequent basis.

OK, forget the price of the burger and look at the actual point they're making.

Isn't the price the point? The question is whether the poorer of the two is comfortable with the expense. At many times in my life, I was the one "not hungry" when invited to a restaurant.

Fine, xapata! Yes, if you suddenly find yourself with a shitload of money, and you have friends who can't pay their bills every month, they have $0.00 in the bank, literally can't afford to ever eat out, and a $20 meal would be a grand expense and a momentous occasion for them... yes, go ahead and offer to pay for those friends every time.

Thanks, I'm glad to have your approval.

If you're curious how I handle those friendships: I invite them to dinner at my place. Much as discussed in the article.

And our friend group periodically chips in a bit so that they can make important purchases, especially health-related ones.

Please tell me one place in the bay area where you can get a burger and a drink for $20?

The correct answer

I picked a random food and $20 as a "small" amount. The burger wasn't the point :-)

I have some friends who aren't comfortable with any out-of-home food expenses. They exclusively cook at home.

TBH I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore.

I sometimes have trouble with message threads, too.

> What kinds of things are you paying for, though? Consider there's a subtle, unintentional message if you insist on paying for their $20 burger and drink: "This $20 is a big deal to you, but not to me." Unless they are dirt poor, they can probably pay for themselves for most things.

I mean if you are stubborn enough you'd find anything innocent to be malicious but I'd wager most people would think nothing of it unless you do it every single time and also refuse reciprocal offers

The context was if someone suddenly has much more money than their friends, and then decides it’s their responsibility to pick up the check every time. It’s not, and probably wouldn’t be appreciated.

I went through the same thing with a much newer friend. It makes sense to you and me logically, but I agree that there was a feeling of disconnect that ultimately made me back off. I'd rather help financially facilitate more opportunities to have a good time, but it just always seems to come off as an insult or uncomfortable, no matter how it's handled.

I feel like im grossly overpaid for what I do in comparison to the much more impactful work that they did, making roughly half what I do, so in my eyes it's only fair to view it as more of a group thing where we can contribute relatively equivalent amounts rather than strictly split amounts? You know?

> I feel like im grossly overpaid for what I do in comparison to the much more impactful work that they did, making roughly half what I do

This this this. I'm a former blue collar who managed to break into tech. After a decade I still feel weird about the amount that I make. My partner and I now have our long-term finances completely squared away and still have money "left over" every month. I feel super lucky, and I basically just want to spend it on my friends and family. They are not destitute but mostly not in tech and just don't have the surplus that we have. Finding ways to share with them without it being overt and weird is an ongoing challenge. (Dinner parties are definitely a favorite, since we like cooking anyways.)

"I imagine that for people with newer or less strong friendships it must be even harder to manage. "

This is me. I'm at a point where through a series of good luck and risk adverse decisions I have a free flow of cash. I really enjoy getting the opportunity to spend it on others, ill buy coffee, ill buy lunch. I ask for nothing in return as it's my honor to do this for them and I want to set the example of being generous with nothing desired in return. If pressed I say, today I can so allow me to do so. In the future when you can, I'll return the honor and let you buy then.

I also have a friend who again through a series of good decisions is at a good place financially and it's fun for us to try and buy things or meals for each other because we both know each others finances and the joy it brings being able to do this for one another.

Make it a “business expense” friends won’t feel as bad of company is treating them all to dinner.

I am not sure that this is a net improvement: either you are lying to your friends, or you are lying to the business/on your taxes.

Well if they get sad from getting told "I have some free money and I'd rather buy stuff for my friends than myself", that's next best thing.

Bible time!

When you sit to dine with a ruler, note well what is before you,

and put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony.

Do not crave his delicacies, for that food is deceptive. - The Book of Proverbs

In my experience rich people are very 'outcomes focused'. They almost always expect something in return. I always ask myself why are they giving food to me specifically and not just some random person?

>In my experience rich people are very 'outcomes focused'. They almost always expect something in return. I always ask myself why are they giving food to me specifically and not just some random person?

How often do rich people randomly feed you and what is it they want in return?

> In my experience rich people are very 'outcomes focused'. They almost always expect something in return.

That's a pretty sad way to live. I mean, I guess when I'm back home and the "rich" person in the room (I went from rural america to FAANG salary), I just want people to enjoy themselves and not think about price when we're at a nice restaurant. That's the "outcome" I want.

Back in the bay area, the rich people in the room never seem to want anything in return for their hospitality. At most they want to hire me, but there's no expectation there.

Your experience (or maybe incorrect thought) is not what I've seen.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com