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Comment by iDisapprove | Hacker News Reader

Really? Women do not start or get involved with tech companies because the male programmers make sexist jokes?! Get real. Women are just as competitive as men, and the reason they stay out of tech has not much to do with sexism. I am all for women and men being equal, but putting men on the burning stake for something like this seems unfair to me.

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Really? Women do not start or get involved with tech companies because the male programmers make sexist jokes?! Get real.

This wasn't a sexist joke. This was a sign of a sexist culture, which is much more pervasive and damaging.

Women are just as competitive as men

Men don't have to take this crap. Well, usually.

he reason they stay out of tech has not much to do with sexism

So, what is it?

Lack of role models. Thats probably the biggest reason there are not enough women in technology.

Also, your mention of sexist culture makes it sound like that's the culture in technology startups, this is not true. Sexism, where it exists, does not depend on the domain. Its pervasive.

I wonder how much role models actually play a role. I got into programming because I loved programming, it was something I could do at home with minimal ramp up time or gear.

There is a lack of role models because there is a perception among the younger generation of women that programming is not a creative endeavor, which makes a lot of women away from learning programming. The society's portrayal of programmers as geeks or beta males does not help either. People are the sum total of the 5-10 people they closely associate with, and most girls do not find their friends wanting to be programmers when they grow up. Peer support, role models, are key. When women like Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook start showing up on TV and the idea of successful women in technology is portrayed to be appealing, you will slowly find women taking more to technology jobs.

Programming is also a solitary endeavor so close to impossible that it seems to require obsession just to reach a minimal level of competence. If anyone is dependent on peer validation and role models (which basically didn't exist for any of us until the first dotcom bubble in the mid-90s), if they care more about what other people think than the Platonic ideals of computation, I don't think they're equipped to thrive and do noteworthy work. Even if we did have some way to make a kid more asocial and hyperfocused while growing up, we'd have to think hard about whether it's ethical to do it to them in this extrovert-oriented society.

Honestly, there's no easy way to tell if programming is solitary because it has to be or because the culture that grew up around it prefers it to be. Consider pair-programming for a counter-example.

Lack of role models. Thats probably the biggest reason there are not enough women in technology.

And why is there a lack of role models?

Also, your mention of sexist culture makes it sound like that's the culture in technology startups, this is not true. Sexism, where it exists, does not depend on the domain. Its pervasive.

I disagree. Different domains have different women:men ratios and that'll affect the male sexism, particularly if the ratio is high on positions of power/influence.

>Lack of role models. Thats probably the biggest reason there are not enough women in technology. //

Is there something that says females can't be inspired by males and vice versa? Why does anyone care a jot about the sex of a particular worker in their field when it comes to being inspired and encouraged?

Sounds like sexism to me.

This was a sign of a sexist culture

Ding ding ding, exactly right. Not only that, but it takes a(n at least minimally) sexist culture for "sexist jokes" to be excused as "jokes" rather than acknowledging the real impact that they have for people. It's not just sexist jokes, it's any sort of off-color joke that's not appropriate in any sort of business/professional/even entrepreneurial setting.

So, what is it?

Lesser ability [1], risk aversion and intolerance (on the part of women) are distinct possibilities. There is quite a bit of evidence supporting each of them. See both my comment and keithflower's reply, which presents additional evidence in favor.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3452963

[1] I'm pushing the Larry Summers' hypothesis of higher variance here, not an unequal mean theory.

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