Comment by worklaptopacct | Hacker News Reader

Comment by worklaptopacct | Hacker News Reader

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As a new Berliner who immigrated here I can answer some of those:

- Berlin has a reputation for its artsy party scene and lax enforcement of drug laws. People come here in their 20s to let themselves loose.

- German universities are good quality and free for all (excluding the Semesterpauschale, but for my American or British friends this 300€ is basically nothing in comparison - especially when you count in the public transport ticket that comes with your student card).

- Immigration is hard, but you are entitled to permanent residency after you've contributed into the pension system for 5 years total within a continuous period of stay in Germany. People are willing to play the game with the Ausländerbehörde for some time if they know they will eventually become eligible for a permanent stay.

- Free, good quality healthcare. Agreed that Berlin is not the representative example in Germany, but for many people coming from places where healthcare is unaffordable or outright dangerous (I'd never want to go to the hospital in my hometown again), this is a huge change for the better.

- You can "get by" in Berlin with English only by now, although you'll be highly dependent on others. I know people who've been here for 5+ years and still struggle to order a beer. Not the best way of living, but definitely possible with so many other expats around.

- Prices/earnings ratio is still better than in many places in the West.

I chose the city myself because I already knew the language (mandatory second language after English at school in my home country), and I don't regret it. You can navigate around the coarse edges and live a good life in here.

I now what you probably mean when you say "free", that you don't have to pay for it, but in reality, the universities are paid by everyone. Same for health care. I pay 400 euros per month. Of course, then I don't pay much else. But the cost is distributed, they are not "free". Maybe I am sensitive to the word, because in my home country, Argentina, populism has made people believe that everything has to be "free".

That's a good point and we should differentiate. The taxes in Europe are very high for a reason.

This is an accounting trick. Taxes do not cover the same services everywhere. Of course, taxes are higher in Sweden than in the US, but then you don’t pay as much for your children’s education or your parents’ health care. So sure, the young and healthy people without children are better off in the US. Or the very wealthy who would nominally pay more taxes, though they have other tricks to use.

On average it’s much more nuanced, though. Comparing at one given level of service, public services are actually good value for money.

It's about mentality. Americans strive to attain the ideal of a "self-made man"; prizing work ethic and self-sufficiency. Germans (Europeans is too broad of a label) are okay with learning a trade and then doing their job consistently for the rest of their lives - that's why the employment conditions in Germany are tuned towards long-term, stable employment.

I understand your perspective, but it is still mostly free for the people who need it (there are always fees and things so it is never completely free, but it is still very cheap compared to the actual cost).

In case of education, young student typically don’t earn enough to pay income tax, if they have any salary or wages at all. To them, it’s free. I now pay for them through my taxes and I am happy to because I was in their position and if uni wouldn’t have been so cheap, I could not have attended. It’s not free for the overall society, but it is free for those who use it.

Same for healthcare. We all pay but when you need heavy surgery or long-term care that would cost tens hundreds of thousands of euros, it’s close enough to free as to not make you bankrupt. Again, free-ish for those who need it.

I mean, the money has to come from somewhere. Yes, in terms of government-provided services "free" tends to mean "socialized", but if I compare it to a market-driven healthcare system in the US where the majority of effort goes into creative billing to milk people's insurances, the overall lifetime cost of healthcare appears to be much lower. Especially that with German insurance, there's no copay for treatments, only for prescription drugs (and even then, it's between 5-10€ per item, which can be further refunded if you are eligible).

With universities, my argument for public funding is that it theoretically makes higher education accessible to people actually interested in the subjects, instead of people who can afford it and go for the prestige of it. I feel that elsewhere, big name universities serve more as a platform for networking rather than actual educational institutions; here, I do not even know which universities are more or less prestigious. A degree is a degree.

In the UK we have the term "free at the point of service."

When I'm in Berlin (mainly talking to Americans) I get the impression that Berlin is especially great if you don't have need to have a job / pay tax

Yes, that's what "free" usually means. When people talk about free healthcare they usually don't mean that the only doctors should be hobbyists.

That's what the word "free" always means. Goods and services don't spontaneously materialize into existence.

You're not kidding about lax enforcement of drug laws. In Kreuzberg I'd often see people obviously offering to sell drugs to passers-by as police cars would drive down the road practically next to them.

On the other hand the police does occasionally decide to make a show out of its enforcement. I think it's more appropriate to call it "selective" than lax, at least by German standards.

If you're a POC in the Kreuzberg parks, you will get searched by the police eventually. As a white kid going to clubs, it is very rare if you behave.

Try to do the same in places like Munich. The police can stop your taxi, search your pockets and bag, and if finding some illegal substances you lose your driver's license and need to go to the court. This will (hopefully) change for weed this year...

It is a show, that's true. However at least in my circles drugs - or at least talking about them - are so normalized that I have to remember to censor myself whenever I meet my friends who don't live in Berlin.

You can get a PR faster (3y) if you’re here on a blue card (which is likely true for all non-EU tech workers).

Universities are not all free for non-EU citizens and some programs (generally English-speaking) Masters are (properly, not the 400€) paid for citizens and non-citizens alike.

Possibly, I'm a EU citizen myself. To be fair, in my home country courses taught in English had actual tuition even if it was a public university as well. Quite a few people who did not do well on their high school graduation exams would opt for those courses just for the prestige of studying at a public uni.

The healthcare is not "free" - health insurance is mandatory, and its quality varies massively depending on your insurer, the hospital/doctor you go to, etc.

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