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Comment by tmh88j | Hacker News Reader

>Does this mean they will have a $15,000 model in 2018? That would be great.

I wouldn't want Tesla to release a car even at $30,000. It takes away the from the rarity and coolness. Electric cars certainly do need to evolve and Tesla has done an incredible job, but there are dozens of other manufacturers out there that are just as capable. If you could buy a Bugatti or Koenigsegg for $75,000 they would certainly be less attractive to auto enthusiasts. It's human nature to want what we can't have. If Prada (not knock-offs) started selling their bags at $50 a pop do you think girls would still worship them?

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Having a luxury brand and affordable products is not mutually exclusive. Many car manufacturers function this way. Just an example:

Audi cars are nice, but ultimately nothing special. Anybody can own an Audi, because the cheaper ones aren't that expensive. That doesn't prevent them from having the R8, though, which at $130,000 is purely a luxury sports car. Everybody who sees an R8 knows that whoever owns it is probably a millionaire. The fact that there are cheaper Audis doesn't minimize the value of the luxury model. The luxury brand essentially becomes "R8," not "Audi."

Other examples: Mercedes and the McLaren SLR, BMW and the i8 supercar. Ford and the Ford GT. So can it be with Tesla and the Tesla Roadster.

>Audi cars are nice, but ultimately nothing special.

I'm not quite sure why you picked BMW and Audi as examples. Everyone knows they're luxury and in the premium class. I'll give you the Ford GT, but as far as Mercedes goes, they're still viewed in the upper-class spectrum in the car world. The C class is currently the cheapest Mercedes and you're lucky to find one for less than $38k on a dealer's lot.

I drove a BMW in highschool^. BMWs and Audis are not "luxury or premium class" cars. Luxury and premium class BMWs and Audis are "luxury and premium class".

^A 3 series almost as old as myself.

In some countries, BMW and Audis are always considered luxury cars (ie. Australia).

A car that sells for 15k pounds in the UK can easily sell for over $50k AUD. (which is 1:1 USD atm)

The price accessibility of older BMW and Audi cars is convenient, because both brands are still perceived as higher-end, allowing a highschool or college student to buy one for relatively cheap and people will still think "expensive."

"allowing a highschool or college student to buy one for relatively cheap and people will still think "expensive."

Indeed, I got mine for 2.5k so that I could pick up "classy chicks". ;)

Surprisingly it worked, to some degree.

I can't tell if you're trolling at this point because this conversation has spun to some irrelevant cost vs brand appearance logic. First of all, we've been talking about new cars and 15 year old models are being brought into the discussion. Secondly, I can buy a 25 year old used Rolls Royce for $20k. Does that mean that Rolls Royce as a brand is not viewed as exclusive and not in the upper echelon of the auto industry?

No, just an off-topic aside directed solely at burgerbrain's comment. I bought a BMW in college for cheap (though a bit more than burgerbrain's).

>I drove a BMW in highschool^. BMWs and Audis are not "luxury or premium class" cars

You're taking this far out of context and acting as if the current models don't matter just because they were designed one way 15+ years ago. The only "cheap" BMWs are the base model 1 and 3 series. Compare the average new 3 series to a high end model from Toyota, Dodge, Chevy, etc... They don't stand a chance in terms of aesthetics and overall "feel."

Even high end lines sometimes have low-end kit. It's not as flashy, it's not as stylish, and everyone knows you got the low-end model. Apple still sells the previous model iPhone for very cheap.

In this case though, Tesla wants to make electric cars affordable. They're only rare and exclusive right now because they're expensive and brand new. They may continue to be rare even at $15,000. A Lotus Elise is cheap and fast and everyone wants one, but I never see them driving down the road.

A Lotus Elise is cheap and fast and everyone wants one, but I never see them driving down the road

That's because of practicality, and because not everyone actually wants one.

True point on practicality, but there are plenty of two-seaters (or virtually two-seaters) driving around. The point was, just because it's inexpensive doesn't mean it's automatically popular.

The thing is, the Elise makes your garden variety two-seater look achingly practical in comparison. But yes, you are right on the last bit.

If caring about the environment and going electric becomes a high-priced elite-tribal-consumerist trend just take me off this planet; I'm not interested in it anymore.

You must have missed when I said "Electric cars certainly do need to evolve and Tesla has done an incredible job, but there are dozens of other manufacturers out there that are just as capable."

Are you trying to argue that you're not paying for a brand? If so, by your logic then stores like Saks Fifth Avenue's "green" brands or high end auto manufacturers with hybrid vehicles have no place in America.

I get what you were saying, but this is (one of?) the first commercially available full-electric car manufacturers and it would be really depressing if it turned into a Ferrari-like club where only millionaires can afford to own it. It's a specific type of market where either you're all in, or you're out. Bugatti doesn't make a point-A to point-B winter-beater and never will. The FIRST EVER electric-car company becoming one of those luxury brands would push the democratization of electric-car ownership that much further into the future.

The Tesla S is great because it seems that upper-middle class folk will be able to own it, and I hope they continue down that path bringing electric cars to everyone.

EDIT: Also the other large manufacturers weren't interested in investing in electric because their analysis showed them they wouldn't see enough return. Tesla is there to prove them wrong. (Some large car-companies are only now building electric cars but it feels rather like a green-washing campaign - it's usually only one model, cars are dinky and impractical...etc)

I'll try to translate this to another industry for you.

Think about premium brands such as Sony, Apple, and Samsung. They make high end electronics that cost a pretty penny. Not everyone can afford a $2,500 laptop or $3,000 TV. When these giants come out with new technology it's terribly expensive at first(think plasma TV's 7+ years ago). Well, after a few years of production and a limited market, the lower-rung guys are able to catch up and get their share too(Vizio, Olevia, Sanyo) granted their products generally aren't as polished. The technology has evolved enough that others are able to produce it so everyone can afford it, while the big name guys still reign king because not only did they offer it at first, but their product is still superior. This same thing is happening right now. Tesla is the premium brand leader, and the other guys (Chevy, Ford, Nissan) are finally starting to get their act together.

The majority of people would rather have a Sony TV than a Vizio(assuming the picture quality is very similar) all because of that little Sony logo. Brands rule America. It's sad but true. Otherwise there would be no reason to spend $100 on a t-shirt.

I'm not sure why your post is down-voted. It's just an opinion and I don't believe well articulated opinions should be down-voted.

I don't think Sony, Apple Samsung are the "premium/luxury" brands (Apple maybe was considered one when it first came out but it certainly wasn't in the same class of exclusivity as a Bugatti is in the car world). I see all of those electronics manufacturers as the GMs or Toyota's of the hardware industry. They make a wide variety of electronics at different price points for different buyers. There's nothing exclusive or elitist about owning a Samsung or an Apple product.

I'd like to see Tesla as the disruptive force among the well-entrenched car brands like GM or Toyota, but I'd rather it not become the super-rare and expensive alternative to them. I realize we pay some premium based on what brand we choose but I was just expressing what I hope the Tesla brand would come to represent (and also what I had heard its mission was initially).

>Not everyone can afford a $2,500 laptop

Apple also makes a sub $1k laptop, and a $600 desktop.

From what I've heard, Elon Musk has been clear that his vision is to make electric cars mainstream. They just started at luxury brands because the margins are better for small production runs, which finances the technology development.

isn't it already?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzcfsq1_bt8

Huh, I think you have misunderstood the business Tesla is in. Tesla aims to be the leading mainstream car manufacturer in the future. They have realized that all cars suck and they are just exploiting the electric car disruption to have a chance on the markets.

Obvious solution: hire Damien Hirst to personally respray your boringly cheap, commodity Tesla. Pure snob value!

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