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Comment by hammyhavoc | Hacker News Reader

Who's "they"?

Slavery means people are not remunerated and have no personal freedom. Japanese are definitely remunerated and definitely have personal freedom.

"お疲れ様でした" (otsukaresamadeshita) = "Thank you for your hard work".

Japan takes great pride in work. Just because you don't understand the culture doesn't give you the right to call it slavery.

If you want to invoke a discussion on slavery in East Asia, do it in the right context.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewelinaochab/2020/04/04/the-fat...

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I don't see the need to bring China to the conversation.

If your entire waking hours have to be dedicated to working, what's the point of having a wage at all?

I already know that Japanese culture takes great pride in work. I wasn't being literal with the word "slavery" (that's why I added "borderline" next to it). That pride doesn't make the day magically last longer than 24 hours.

Being passionate with your work is great and all. But time is finite, and life passes by. If I'm left with no time to cultivate any hobbies or even spend quality time with my family and/or friends, then I don't see the point at all.

The need is because your comment diminishes actual modern slaving in East Asia and is an incredibly disrespectful stereotype of a "salaryman".

Is American "crunch culture" any better? Does that crunch culture in America represent America as a whole?

"The Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development does annual research into the amount of work done by the average citizen in a given country over the course of the year. According to these statistics, these countries rank higher than Japan in terms of average working time in a year: Mexico, South Korea, Greece, Chile, Russia, Poland, Latvia, Israel, Iceland, Ireland, Estonia, Portugal, and the United States. Even New Zealand ranks higher than Japan on documented hours worked."

Whataboutism at it's finest. Instead of trying to engage with the original commentee you try to steer the discussion towards "hey, but what about these places". Of course the working hours of the average American "paycheck-to-paycheck-working-three-jobs citizen" are insane but that is a direct consequence of hyper-capitalism.

It is a matter of fact that the working conditions of the average salaryman are not well suited towards building families. There are more than enough statistics to support this fact, however, you need to be careful about the target demographics of the workers. Additionally, the social and cultural pressure to spend time with your coworkers and your boss after work means further time spent away from your (possible) family.

I don't really understand why it is so difficult for you to accept the fact that Japanese working culture is not suitable for the 21st century. Automation and effiency is increasing accross nearly all white-collar industries and Japanese traditions still see it fit to mandate "arrive before your boss, leave after (sic!) him".

The savior mentality is strong here

> If I'm left with no time to cultivate any hobbies or even spend quality time with my family and/or friends, then I don't see the point at all.

I bet this explains a lot of why people are not interested in having children anymore. Why to have children, if you will not be able to even afford a house for them, and working your ass off will preclude enjoying their company.

your job can be your hobby. that is what many japanese feel like. not everyone loves american way of life of buying every electronic with credit card debt and then having to do shitty jobs to pay back. also the definition of shitty varies. some japanese find great pleasures in simple jobs as long as they feel they are learning and moving toward being better. we can definitly see that americans do not work like the japanese are. the service culture, the experience at any kind of starbucks or macdonalds, the infrastructure and the state of roads. why do you think everything is pristine in japan? because they pride themselves into achieving something greater at the end of every day of work. Its obviously a generalization but as a whole it shows very well. the biggest culture shock u can have is fly from JFK to HANEDA and go to a starbuck in both of those. time is finite so better make every moment aiming to serve something bigger than "i hate my job and want to finish at 5 and whatever in between is an obstacle".

and im not praising that im just showing the good side of it and not only the bad side "working too hard". no model is perfect

Sounds like a bad cultural fit for you then. Values are subjective. One could easily turn it around and say that a life spent in the pursuit of happiness is a waste. Hedonism is not a universally accepted value. One could equally say that Duty or hard work is the measure of a life well lived.

I don't want to come off as critiquing you, but this is an important point if you want to understand other people and their value systems

borderline slavery =/= slavery

There is absolutely nothing controversial about stating that work conditions in Japan are appalling. Calm down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

We will have to accept a newer modern form of slavery. Where workers must work. And their options to move to a different job are little to none.

It is what is binding women to work in Japan because living cost is high.

Where's the difference to the USA or UK with people taking second and third jobs just to make ends meet due to the cost of living?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

It's the holy grail of capitalistic and socialistic work cultures.

Not slavery, but https://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan...

The Japanese

Fuck me. That's a horrible broad stroke.

That Japanese work culture is exploitative? You might as well say it's a broad stroke to say Americans like hamburgers.

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