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Comment by noelwelsh | Hacker News Reader

I can't speak to what's appropriate in Southern California, but here in the UK I've become a bit advocate of replacing lawns with meadows. The simplest route is to just stop mowing and let whatever comes up after a few years stay there. The hardest is to get rid of all the grass, plant a meadow mix of seeds, and then basically leave it alone. Not only it is better for the environment than lawn, it's dramatically less work as you only need touch the thing a maximum of once a year.

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> I've become a bit advocate of replacing lawns with meadows.

This is a great idea.

> The simplest route is to just stop mowing and let whatever comes up after a few years stay there.

This is a horrible idea.

In most suburban environments there aren't a lot of native plants left around to be spreading seed, and most of the plants that have survived heavy artificial landscaping and will propagate on their own are weeds (often invasive) that are nothing like a nice native meadow. They will look ugly, have thorns, spread like wild fire into people's gardens if not kept under control, and make everyone hate you.

A native landscape will be less maintenance and use less water in the long run (if meadows aren't native in your area substitute whatever is), but it will take effort to get it into that state.

I'd add that, where I live but probably in a number of areas of the US, even a plowed and wildflower-seeded tract of land will basically turn into mixed forest over time--which has actually happened with a lot of former farmland in New England. Which is fine to some degree. I moved into an old farmhouse 25 years ago and let a section out towards the road basically regrow into forest which has fairly tall trees at this point--which better screens the house from the road. But you probably don't want that all the way up to the house for fire and other reasons.

(I keep a fairly small lawn and the rest--other than the forest break between me and the road--gets cut by a tractor once a year.)

> But you probably don't want that all the way up to the house for fire and other reasons.

There are best practices for wildfire zones. Up to 5'/2m you don't want anything flammable, and up to 30'/10m you want to minimize vegetation (though some with appropriate spacing is okay):

* https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Fire-causes-and-risks/...

but it will take effort to get it into that state.

Yeah, this exactly. There's a local horticulturist who specializes in replacing lawns with meadow-ish, native species setups. I had him come in and look at what I'd need to do to get there (no more mowing? Drought resistant? Fewer/no chemicals? I would like to subscribe to your newsletter...).

It's a lot of time/work: from getting rid of the grass, conditioning the soil, finding the right balance of species to thrive in your conditions, to keeping the invasive species out. Pretty much if you aren't regularly maintaining it, the same crud trying to take over your lawn will take over and smother your prairie. So...maybe it's 'less maintenance', but there's still good bit of maintenance.

In the US, the biggest issue with meadows is legislative: In my entire county, my ordinance, I have to have a lawn, not dirt, and it has to be no greater than 8 inches tall. I couldn't avoid it by moving my property closer to the road either: Minimum setback is 15 feet. This standards can, and often are, raised by further municipal codes and home owner associations.

Therefore, getting a meadow here starts with changing multiple layers of regulations. Much better for the environment, but a significant amount of work, arguing with people that just don't want anything to change.

> just stop mowing

... and add a tick check every couple of days to your routine :-(

Ticks are not a concern in most of the UK.

As someone who lives in the woods of the Ozarks: Every couple of days is not enough. If you're outside from April to November, you check.

Yeah. It depends on the season and the year but I've had days around where I live in MA where, especially in the late spring, I can't walk a mile out through my field--which is typically short at that time of year--down to the river without finding multiple ticks on me when I get back.

This was the case growing up in PA too but it's much more troublesome disease-wise these days.

The forest around my house has be minimally cleared to include about a 30' gravel "yard" and there's no where to be safe from the damned ticks and chiggers. It always requires an application of something. Given the increase of Alpha-gal issues caused by the ticks locally, it's an absolute necessity.

And be prepared to interact with many other animals. This includes the ones we all seem to love, like birds and bees and fireflies, but also those that are typically considered vermin, like spiders, snakes, mice, wasps, roaches.

Not that there's anything really bad about that. It just requires a change to how you approach your outdoor spaces.

Friend of mine has 2 neighbors who have gone full don't mow back to nature and all that. No, it doesn't look 'natural' or anything else nice. It looks like what is: overgrown weeds, sprawling vines (kudzu, poison ivy), several years of desiccated branches and stems (glad we aren't in a fireprone area), and scraggly, non-native trees trying to take hold.

But the best thing for my friend is how much rats like it. Not mice, rats. Lots of rats.

> The simplest route is to just stop mowing and let whatever comes up after a few years stay there.

Don't do this. It's not clever - it's just lazy. If you don't want a lawn that's fine. But just neglecting it will result in something awful and everyone will hate it. Just letting everything grow to seed so that it spreads everywhere is also kind of rude. Be a good neighbor. Don't attract mosquitoes or ticks, etc.

Be thoughtful about it and think about how you want your yard to look. If your idea results in no maintenance then it's not a good idea. Even a meadow look or something more natural will require time and energy to maintain. Probably more than cutting a lawn.

> it's dramatically less work as you only need touch the thing a maximum of once a year

No, it's not. What you have is something that looks awful. I'm glad my town will come and chop your lawn down once it hits 10".

If you live in a rural area then do as you please. But if you have neighbors, this is a really bad thing to do.

The real answer is to plant native ground ground cover.

Agreed. That's exactly what a meadow is in the UK.

Clover tends to be a good thing. Bees love it too. And it doesn't need fertilizer as it takes nitrogen from the air. It also tends to not get out of hand.

We use clover. Max, it only grows like 8" or so (which isn't as tall as it sounds. We mow it a few times a year.

It is drought tolerant too, so we don't need to water the lawn. It's win-win-win.

It of course depends on where you live but in my area ticks are not a concern and just keeping weeds out of your lawn takes a lot of work, dandelions take over within a couple years if all you do is mow. Keeping things reasonably green and level requires filling, fertilizer, overseeding, etc, etc. We plan to gradually convert most of ours to native bushes and meadow.

In the context of the UK you are wrong. Here's what the RHS has to say about growing a meadow: https://www.rhs.org.uk/lawns/wildflower-meadow-maintenance You will notice that maintenance for an established meadow consists of three cuts a year, two of which are not needed in certain circumstances.

> They may look natural and untamed, but both new and established perennial meadows need specifically timed maintenance to create a balanced mix of grasses and wildflower species.

You claim you don't have to do anything. The article immediately says you do. It takes work for it to not be awful. I have friends in the UK with a large property and part of it is a meadow and it still takes taking care of.

This is a cultural attitude that prevails in the US. Home values are tied to curb appeal, not only of your house but of your neighbors' homes. It's a very unfortunate situation because a strictly aesthetic concern results in untold amounts of fertilizer and pesticide in our ecosystems and of course endless water use. It's easy to forget that fertilizer is an ecological disaster both on the production and consumption sides - ammonia production for fertilizer is one of the larger carbon emission sources on the planet. I really don't have a solution to suggest, but at the very least we can all start checking our negative reactions when we see an ugly lawn. Cultural attitudes can change over time.

I literally say you don't need to have a lawn. Just don't mistake being lazy and not doing anything for somehow being a virtuous environmentalist. Build a prairie - it looks great when done well. But you have to put some work and thought into it. Just letting your lawn overgrow is not the way.

In this thread I even mention using clover if you really don't want to manage much and have a ground cover that prevents erosion and is attractive to bees that doesn't need fertilizer because it draws nitrogen from the air.

But yes, if you do nothing and let a lawn just overgrow I'm happy the town will cut it down and charge you.

I do this and it looks pretty damn good, lots of different wildflowers and tall grasses, but I guess it's a matter of taste. I like the feel of having my own bit of nature close to me. I even saw a huge violet oil beetle walking along recently.

> Even a meadow look or something more natural will require time and energy to maintain. Probably more than cutting a lawn.

How do you think the meadows you come across get taken care of? For the most part the farmer just comes by 2-3 times per year to mow, it's not that deep. What the best meadows have going for them are years and years of the same mowing schedule which has allowed a huge variety of native plants to spread.

> just stop mowing

Oof.. this must be regional. Around here if I stop mowing I would have a yard full of tumble weed, goat heads, and white top. All of which are invasive species. The best I can do with native plants that will live without much intervention is sage brush and compacted soil which is neither pleasant to look at or pleasant to live in. =/

I definitely agree that the advice is regional. I live in Arizona and I've been working to transform my backyard though some managed neglect with some success. The big thing for me was knowing what plants live in my yard: what to keep and what to remove. After killing the bermuda grass, I did get some nice volunteer sunflowers that I've encouraged to the point that we yearly get a good amount of them on our back porch (water settles in the area when it rains). I've added some globe mallow and other natives over time. I've also learned about all the different invasive weeds in my neighborhood (globe chamomile a.k.a stinknet is a plague). This past winter/spring I added more wildflower seeds which turned out pretty nice. I'm hoping over time I can get more native plants or at least more desirable plants to out-compete the less desirables so it gets easier to manage. In the end I think it's more work than a lawn and takes some education, but to me it's infinitely more interesting and enjoyable to work on.

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