Comment by brewtide | Hacker News Reader

Comment by brewtide | Hacker News Reader

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I have a 9 and 7 year old and we are constantly enjoying such YouTube channels as "smarter every day", "veritasium" (spelling?), "Stuff made here", to some extent Colin furze, "technology connections", and other such edutainment.

Not sure it speaks about differences in kids, in ages, in households, or likely a combination of sorts.

Also, not a judgement on your kids, just a counterpoint about the resources available and how some people will tend to gravitate in different directions.

7 year old daughter is learning to knit and forgot how to "cast on" , so she jumped on YouTube to search a how-to and had one of the methods figured out in 20 minutes.

So, perhaps it does have more to do with the availability of such edutainment since they were very young -- we've been on this path for 5 years or so and it has just become "the norm" if we are to use YouTube as a household.

(I will admit that as Dad, my time on YouTube is split between learning about whatever new hobby has peaked my interest , currently SDR related stuff, and car related material for fun. I've also fallen into the LTT universe, but am aiming to back away because it, in my opinion , is just providing that mindless watching which I aimed to get rid of around 16 years old (ie, decades ago) to better use available free time.

Seems everyone is just different, but the resources are for sure there!

But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree.

Now there is excellent serious educational material on youtube, stuff like khan academy, etc, but thats not what people are watching for leisure.

If youre going to learn something useful, it is going to be difficult - e.g. it requires work on the part of the watcher. Gen z isnt just learning physics by idly watching veritasium videos.

> but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject.

Technology Connections will provide deep understanding of the refrigeration cycle, how different types of gas lamps work, how heat pumps work, and how developing film works.

And those are just the video series I can remember.

When I was a kid I learned everything I could by watching discovery channel which in the late 90s was the equivalent of what you get from the Popsci YouTube channels. This was good enough for me to write a space settlement design proposal, submit it to NASA and win. The “surface level” stuff is more than sufficient to pique your interest and get a good understanding. Combine this with good schooling and you’re on path to be a great scientist leave alone a well learned person.

The person you’re replying to has kids in the single digits for age. Thinking about a college-level education for a 7 and 9 year old seems fairly unrealistic, and learning “educational” topics like you point out at that age is perfectly fine. You’re still learning addition and subtraction at age 7.

I don't think any of those channels are trying to replace an actual science education in any given subject. But they are certainly imparting a lot more than physics "factoids", and some are probably closer to intro lectures on specific topics intended for a general audience (done by a talented and engaging educator).

It's not directly equipping the audience with professional skills for a scientific career, but it is generating interest in science, and indirectly encouraging people to expand their own STEM skills and knowledge. I'm sure that dozens (hundreds? thousnads?) of people have gone into mathematics at least in part due to an interest generated by the likes of numberphile, etc.

But the original comment said Youtube can replace school.

> They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free.

I think you misunderstood the comment. It could be better written as "By the time they leave school they can already be..."

Right but hats the point im making - unless a kid is very strictly trying to actually learn a particular subject, no amount of edutainment is gonna give them any kind of professionally applicable skills.

Now if a kid watching videos that are long form treatments on specific subjects and are following allong with a pen and paper doing practice problems, sure, thats a case where youtube might give you some serious skills, but that is a tiny fraction of kids and those same kids would have been doing the same shit with textbooks at their local library. Youtube is waaaaaaaay closer to being purely a distraction than to being something we could consider "educational" in any serious sense.

School isn't a panacea either. I think I've done above average in school for the most part, but I never learned enough to have "professionally applicable skills". And the skills I actually use in my profession I learned outside of school.

The thing is, when people are motivated to do something, they'll learn what they need. Otherwise, not even school can force feed students into learning those things.

@nonethewiser > But the original comment said Youtube can replace school.

Are you sure, that's what the original comment said?

I interpret the quote you posted as "they can already know everything about their passion when they leave school", which would mean that YT is not a replacement for school - but an addition to it.

> But those channels you listed are not educational, theyre "educational" e.g. you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject.

And that's exactly what kids need. They can wait to hone rigor and scientific intuition. As long as the interest takes root, they'll find their way.

Veritasium is cut in the same cloth as Bill Nye (and Mr. Wizard before him), and we anecdotally know Bill inspired folks to pursue STEM.

Well that’s fine, but it falls short of the original claim that YT can replace a college education.

> They can literally leave school and already be professionally competent. I think we’ll see them leapfrogging millennials on the career ladder because they had a youth where they could spend their entire time learning literally everything there is to know about their passion for free.

I think he’s right in theory, but in reality kids just watch what’s entertaining.

They said children could leave school with a college level foundation, not that they'd be college level at the age of seven.

> They said children could leave school with a college level foundation

And is that because of infotainment?

> Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree.

They're totally different things, obviously...

> you may learn some factoids about physics are learn about some cool experience but in no way will they impart to you a deep understanding of any subject. Those sorts of edutainment style videos are not ever going to compete against say, a college degree.

I disagree with this sentiment, even though what you say is technically true.

"Deep understanding" can't be imparted, not in school, not in a video. Here we all know plenty of engineers with degrees with no deep understanding of the programming languages they use daily. Deep understanding can't be imparted, you have to go and grab it by yourself.

"If you want people to build a ship, don't talk to them about sails and wood and tar, tell them about freedom."

Those edutainment videos have sparked my curiosity and help me appreciate things about the world around me I wouldn't have noticed. For really deep understanding, I may have to let this curiosity propel me into a book. Going into a book about urban design after a "Not just bike videos" with curiosity and an intuitive although shallow understanding, is much better than sitting through 50 minutes of a boring and bored professor drawling about something, which was a lot of my college experience.

You are right that Youtube can't replace college, or making experiments yourself, or reading a book. It's a different thing. But, specially for kids, this is how education should start, and it may be way more fundamental than the other pieces.

You are also right that if kids, or anyone, stays on the level of watching Youtube videos, not much is gained. But still, that edutainment can be a great part of education.

I agree with you entirely, but my post was in response to someone saying that a kid could finish high school with professional skills due to youtube... thats just not realistic. Sure it might pique their interest but so can books, television, talking with adults, school, etc. So I still do not think youtube is a particularly effective "professional skills education" tool

It 100% is realistic dependent on the field. If you combine what you learned from YouTube with personal projects you can be professionally proficient in:

- An instrument/songwriting

- Music Production

- Video Production

- DevOps

- Network Administration

- Any kind of programming (Frontend, Backend, Game Development, Assembly, whatever you can think of)

- Vehicle Mechanics

- Electronics Repair

- Maths

- Hair and Makeup

- Costume/Fashion Design

- Fitness/sport coaching

- Graphic Design

- Bookkeeping

- CAD Design

- Carpentry

- Plumbing

And these are just the ones off the top of my head. They might need to get the piece of paper in order to legally practice, but the kids out there who like delving into how things work (and they do exist) could absolutely have all the knowledge they needed to work in a professional capacity and often do. Proficiency and reputation trump certificates.

> you may learn some factoids about physics

are MIT lectures "factoids" now?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=mit+opencoursew...

> Gen z isnt just learning physics by idly watching veritasium videos.

This is a massive generalisation. Sure, I'd probably agree with you that a large cohort are watching a lot of trash. But there's a sizeable amount who are putting the work. And I imagine that the percentage of those putting in the work probably increases the closer they are to the poverty line growing up.

peaked my interest

That's "piqued my interest". It's a homophone. Also used in "fit of pique" and, very rarely "piquant". It's a word on its way out, but I like it.

It's a homophone, not a homonym. If you're going to correct someone's grammar, you should probably proofread your correction.

Speaking of corrections, it appears that homophones are a type of homonym, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym

When I was a schoolkid, I received various lesson materials that labelled homophones as homonyms. It took me years to discover that was wrong and unlearn that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonym#Related_terms

Muphry's Law

That begs the question: does correcting a homophone constitute a correction of grammar or of spelling? And another: can I successfully provoke another correction by 'misusing' "begs the question"?

Can you attribute your kids' behavior to any actions you took or policies you had? Please don't be shy about it, I would love to inculcate that into my kids as well.

Not OP, but no matter what they say take it with a grain of salt. Rising kids is like throwing dice. No matter what you do (or don’t) within normal ranges of behavior, it’s pretty much a crapshoot to predict what comes out of them. The only correlation I’ve seen is they tend to emulate the parents’ intelligence levels and if you’re passionate about what you do, they might be too.

I think you are probably right and that there are many things in the environment, that also have influence. However, I would say that there are some tricks one can try:

Reading stories to children for example. If the story is interesting, the child will want to know how the story goes on. As soon as they can read, they will be tempted to grab that book and find out.

No policies really just a general way of living. This is a disposable comment so am aiming to write more but things got 'busy' here and now we're getting ready for school! (And work..)

I'll elaborate this evening, but as a lower poster said, it is all rolling dice and everyone is certainly their own beast in their own cage. I will gladly share how it seemingly transpired (and I feel, more important, the reasoning behind focusing on such things).

In very short, I'm a huge believer that we seriously underestimate what small children are capable of understanding at you get ages, and have always felt that exposure to 'all the things' helps provide needed prospective about all that is available in life.

They have both absorbed enough surface level interest and actual information that when watching a video about a semi related subject, they find themselves referencing OTHER information they learned from another video/source and click the pieces together like Lego -- you can see their eyes light up when this connection is made in their head, and I feel it starts really showing that information across the board is solely a piece to a way way bigger puzzle, and that although learning about seemingly disconnected things in a jumble can often find itself existing the jumble and finding its place in APPLICATION in life somewhere.

This seems to really nail home the point that anything, really, may be worth learning because no doubt a real world use case may arise sometime in the future.

Again, I can write more when time allows, but that's the reasoning behind it all. We also do a ton of projects where we can actually, partially at least, use a lot of the things learned from videos and transcribe them from thoughts alone into tangible end results - beyond important for everyone of every age, IMO

"infotainment" or "edutainment" is what that type of content is - I think it's mostly mindless entertainment masquerading as informative or educational content

>"veritasium" (spelling?),

Close, V E R I S T A B L I U M

Hosted by good ol' Dirk!

(For those not in the know, this is an in-joke originating at least from the Hello Internet podcast, with CGP Grey and Brady Haran. "Veritasium" is, indeed, the correct spelling.)

RIP Hello Internet

> Hosted by good ol' Dirk!

Ol' Dirk Miller! Heckuva guy!

But that there's that other guy Derek Mueller who has totally copied his channel.

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