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Comment by danparsonson | Hacker News Reader

I know someone who recently started to experience visual noise - spots all over their field of view like TV static. After some research and testing it appears they have a thing called Visual Snow Syndrome, sort of the eye equivalent of tinnitus.

So far no idea what to do about it though - has anyone here come across this before?

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In my case, anecdata warning, it was caused by nose injury due to dry air 24/7 causing swelling inside the skull and impairing circulation combined with overall circulation problems, mainly neck tightness due to stress building up over time. It's now gone

Interesting. Did you do something in particular to make it go away?

No alcohol, more rest, more coffee with cinnamon, more sugar to help relaxation of muscles, more magnesium, b12,

extra water and salt, temporarily, to accommodate more fluid capacity of relaxed body and it's vessels

Eye movement. Eyeballs have a little opening at the back that acts as a drain for eyeball fluid, but it's only able to drain in "wall eyed" position for me, so looking at something very far away

Eyeball massage. Gently pressing down on your eyeballs with palm of hand or squeezing one's eyelids tight shut for few seconds repeatedly

That's very interesting thank you - stress may well be a factor in my friend's case. Glad to hear that you recovered.

That's... not normal? Like, not a huge amount normally but a faint overlay that's there if you look for it, and much more visible in low light?

What about edges, do people normally see them as having a kind of 'invisible glow'? It's hard to describe but they seem emphasized. I guess it looks a bit like ringing (in the signal processing sense, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts)

I feel like it’s normal but people just don’t notice. Light is naturally noisy.

All five senses have this static noise in background: they are mediated by a number of discretely activated neurons, and in case of light, the photons themselves are discrete.

No it certainly is not normal, and in the case of my friend only started within the last six months.

There's more information here so you can get an idea what I'm talking about: https://visualsnowsyndrome.com/

That sounds severe and so unlike what I’ve experienced. But some amount of noise in vision is normal, you just don’t notice it unless you focus on it, or have a background that really makes it apparently. Light is inherently noisy. If you look at a blank sheet of paper and all you see is #FFFFFF, you’re not paying attention.

One theory I've heard is that we normally filter out the noise but in some people that's not happening and thus they experience VSS. Likewise for tinnitus.

Wow, yeah that sounds annoying. I wouldn't characterize mine as 'bad', it's always been like that so it's just what things look like. It's not annoying and doesn't make it hard to function. I do get an interesting number of the listed associated symptoms (in small amounts), though. Photosensitivity, lens flares at night, tinnitus (not the hearing damage type, just a permanent high pitched hiss like an old CRT, basically sounds like what this looks like.)

I think it's common for people who develop this condition at an early age to assume that everyone perceives the world in the same way as they have no objective reference frame - a bit like those stories of people who grow up thinking bananas are spicy when in fact they're mildly allergic to them.

It may be that you have a mild version of VSS, or maybe your vision is atypical in some other way? The comparison with tinnitus is appropriate in the case of VSS, as I understand that it's theorised to be the visual equivalent.

I don't think it's normal, but I do think that a lot more people can/do see static and other visual phenomenon and don't think it's unusual.

If it hasn't bothered you so far, don't let it bother you now.

This is very common in recreational polydrug users, particularly in users of dissociative anesthetic drugs and psychedelics. So if you do those, stop for good. The effect will slowly mitigate.

No recreational drugs involved in this case but thanks for the heads up.

I'm reading this thread intently after a friend who was in a clinical trial for psilocybin went for a ketamine treatment only a few days later. She has that floaters and brain fog. She recently started on an epilepsy drug that seems to be helping

I've had this for a few years now.

I'd say the first thing to do is go to a doctor and rule out any more serious cause of the visual phenomenon, e.g. MS, brain tumor, and so on.

If that's all clear, then you kind of have to just get used to it. Taking care of your overall health, like getting enough sleep, exercising, and eating well, seems to help people with their symptoms either directly or indirectly.

There are a few neuro-opthalmologists working on treatments that seem to produce some degree of improvement in patients.

That's useful, thank you for sharing your experiences.

Why would you want to heal it ? I have some heavy visual snow but it seems to disappear if I stop focusing on it. It seems like the grain of an old movie except that it doesn't seem to impair my ability to see details. kalm. I can of course focus on the snow and there is suddenly thousands of little rgb stars exploding everywhere and running along constrast lines. panik.

Yeah, just wish I could not See it you know? A lot of people find it distressing, feel like they're losing they're minds, feel depersonalized, etc.

It's also not the only symptom, there's light trails, strong after images, very noticeable floaters and BFEP.

Like basically more intense versions of visual phenomena that most people experience but it's persistent.

For what it's worth, it doesn't really bother me anymore but developing it or noticing it for the first time can be hard for people.

Sometimes I get weirdly self-conscious because I can't tell the difference between merely perceiving entropy and having "visual show".

I can still see everything perfectly clearly. I can just also see entropy. Does that make it visual snow? Can I even describe the experience of "entropy" in a way that properly allows someone to tell whether what I'm describing counts as visual snow?

Hm.

It’s usually “yes you can” when you can. As in: is this water boiling or not? You’re not sure only until it’s clear it is.

Maybe this will help: https://visionsimulations.com/visual-snow.htm

Although the condition is not well understood, I think the consensus of opinion is that the phenomenon is neural rather than opthalmic - i.e. perceptual in nature. If you are perceiving entropy in a similar way to the website I linked, it could be VSS (obviously you should consult a medical professional for a proper diagnosis though).

> Maybe this will help: https://visionsimulations.com/visual-snow.htm

Isn't that... just entropy? At least, the default settings. Like... that's almost what I see (on the website it is greatly exaggerated). I see it because physically, light literally doesn't take the same path twice. Exact same reasons why path tracers take a long time to converge.

I can see solid colors and make out shapes (even very small shapes) easily. Nothing is obscured. The noise isn't obnoxious or distracting or annoying. Neurologically I smooth it out and perceive a world without noise. But it's there.

I would be more surprised if this is not a thing that happens to everyone. If someone can look at a surface, and see a completely solid color, with no sign of noise at all ever. With no entropy or anything. Completely and totally static and unchanging.

However you describe it, that's not how I experience vision, and as far as I know, not typical. If you've had this all your life then it's reasonable that you would assume everyone's vision works like that; maybe you could try using that website to compare your experiences with some friends and find out.

> If you've had this all your life then it's reasonable that you would assume everyone's vision works like that

I just can't possibly imagine vision that has zero noise at all. That can't be physically possible. Surely people who think their vision is completely 100% noise-free are just unable to tell that it's there? Or am I just crazy? I mean this is literally the same reason why photos taken by digital cameras have noise in them...

> maybe you could try using that website to compare your experiences with some friends

The website just isn't accurate to what I see for some reason. It's not nearly that obvious. It's just how solid colors are constructed. I'm fairly sure that everyone has this and just doesn't notice.

But... "fairly sure" isn't completely sure. I would be so surprised if I'm wrong, but I have no idea, honestly.

Only just saw this, sorry - you'll have to ask around I guess but no, I genuinely do not notice any noise in my vision even if I really concentrate, except possibly a little at night time. I think for most people, the noise is filtered out by the brain, but that's perceptively equivalent to a total absence, which is what I experience.

There other effects like persistence of vision - staring at anything for a long time will create strange visual artefacts but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

> no, I genuinely do not notice any noise in my vision even if I really concentrate, except possibly a little at night time. I think for most people, the noise is filtered out by the brain, but that's perceptively equivalent to a total absence, which is what I experience.

That's... really weird. For me it's everywhere all the time, especially in darkness. I filter it out... subconsciously, or something? but not perceptually. It never distracts and never obstructs but it's never just genuinely missing.

Could be caused by being autistic, I know autistic brains can be bad at filtering out stimuli.

> There other effects like persistence of vision - staring at anything for a long time will create strange visual artefacts but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

That's indeed not what I was referring to, but I do also get this.

If I stare at something even for as short as 10 seconds, and close my eyes, some "impression" of it will stick for a few seconds. Usually just the edges or vague layout of it, and faint enough that I don't notice it unless I try to trigger it on purpose, but it's there.

And if I stay perfectly still for long enough, everything will fade to grey until I move my eyes again.

But both of these have no effects on the noise.

Could also be a Visual Migraine (a.k.a Retinal Migraine and Ocular Migraine). AFAIK it is theorized that Visual Snow Syndrome and Visual Migraine are related.

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