Hacker News Reader

Comment by nivenkos | Hacker News Reader

The EU is really heading down a bad path recently with this, some aspects of the Digital Services Act (mandatory simplified explanations of content "algorithms"), the proposed AI Act, the proposed Chat Control Act, etc.

The EU should focus on improving the business environment by standardising and liberalising the payment of payroll and income taxes across the Union (so you could work for a company in one country and live in another), digital ID, international banking, pension and national insurance transfers, and residence registration (so it isn't a months-long bureaucratic process in any new country), companies registration (to make it simple for one company to operate and hire in the whole Union, without dozens of local tax and labour law issues, etc.) and solving issues like the housing crisis, disastrous rent control schemes, etc. that impede economic mobility.

View on HN

The EU can only proceed where there is consensus and there is no appetite for harmonisation across the bloc for most of those issues.

Really what you are describing is a superstate akin to the US Federal Government, which is not the purpose or goal of the union.

Countries within the EU also have vastly different cultural attitudes to many issues. For example, in some countries having a national ID card is mandatory (Germany) and others don't have a national ID card at all (Ireland). Some countries have opted-out of the Euro single currency (Denmark) and others are dragging their heels even though they have an obligation to join (Sweden, Hungary, Poland, etc). Some countries have opted-out of the EU Mutual Defence Clause. One (Ireland again, due to border issues with Northern Ireland) didn't join Schengen.

Trying to force such a diverse set of populations into a single superstate will just lead to the break up of the union.

> which is not the purpose or goal of the union

That depends who you ask.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_European_Federalists

"Ever-closer union", the development of a common security and defence policy, and the introduction of a common currency all look quite federalist to me.

That was an extremely controversial phrase and Lisbon nearly fell apart due to it. It's worth noting that the full aim is "to continue the process of creating an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe, in which decisions are taken as closely as possible to the citizen in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity".

It was specifically worded that the union was of the peoples of the bloc, not the countries.

The Union of European Federalists have apparently 100,000 members out of a population of ~450 million. It's beyond a niche organisation.

I think it's more of a generational issue. as far as my experience goes most of the younger folks consider themselves european

We differ very much on what the EU should/shouldn't do. You can already work for a company in one country and live in another. It might take a bit of effort on the employee's side, but that's it. Standardization of income taxes is a death knell for politics, and a sure-fire way to make the EU fail.

International banking is already settled, pensioning too. Insurance isn't needed. You can insure yourself in your new country.

> make it simple for one company to operate and hire in the whole Union

Oh, I see. You're only in it for the money.

The employer's side is already very complicated though.

International banking is not settled. You cannot settle your taxes in Spain with a foreign IBAN, there are similar issues with many other services too (internet, phone and utility contracts, etc.).

I didn't mention income taxes, but payroll taxes i.e. the employer side. But income tax shouldn't exist anyway.

> Insurance isn't needed. You can insure yourself in your new country.

But the employer is usually required to pay it - e.g. national insurance in the UK, social security in Spain, that is a massive barrier to international work even within the EU. There needs to be agreements to split the payment to allow the employer and the employee to reside and operate in different EU member countries.

> Oh, I see. You're only in it for the money.

Making business easier makes us all more money (less friction and overhead = a bigger pie). I'm not even a business owner, but could benefit a lot if I could more easily move somewhere within the EU with a lower cost of living.

> But income tax shouldn't exist anyway.

Indeed, we're on totally different sides of the isle.

> a massive barrier to international work

There are all kinds of agencies willing to make that easier for you. Sure, it costs, but that's business.

> I ... could benefit a lot if I could more easily move somewhere within the EU with a lower cost of living.

That's a perversion of the system. You want to eat from both sides: where the cost of living is high, the salaries are high, but you don't want to spend the money there. Instead, you'll drive up housing prices in a poorer country. "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."

The banking situation is like an MVP of the real thing. You can't easily get a mortgage in another country, some of the banks can't even serve you in English, etc.

As for taxes, in theory, you could have a unified system that exposes a bunch of knobs for each country to turn as they wish. Some might even set some of them to 0. You can do much better than the current mess. I guess you can also do much worse, especially for the people who've already found their niche tax-wise.

Everything is an even bigger mess when you are a company (not even an employer). E.g. recycling mess mentioned here: https://www.pcengines.ch/recycle.htm

The EU doesn't have a tech sector and is therefore very happy to destroy the services from other countries with stupid regulations. This is pretty clear after the cookie banners.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com