Ask HN: Is split keyboard worth the effort?

I can live without split.

I would consider any keyboard with a large spacebar less than ideal, though.

I like my thumbs to be able to reach 2-3 keys each. That way, as well as space, my thumbs can be used for tab, escape, backspace, and return. -- I find that having these keys accessible to the thumbs (& not having to move my hands or reach with my pinky fingers) to hit these keys such an obvious win for efficiency.

Using home-row mods is another technique that allows for reducing reliance on the pinky fingers. By putting Alt, Gui, Ctrl, Shift underneath asdf (and ;lkj), these keys are accessible without having to move my hands.

As others said, maybe you're overestimating the amount of progress that you can make in a short time.

I'd estimate that a higher proportion of 'people who are enthusiastic about these small keyboards' are programmers (& thus need to be able to access all sorts of symbols) compared to the general computing population.

Maybe you’re just switching too many things at once?

I went from a traditional keyboard, and switched layout.

Then on a typematrix, and it was annoying until it became second nature.

Then a x-bows, that I see as a nice evolution of the typematrix or Microsoft ergo. The change felt easier to adjust to.

Now using a full split keyboard, and it’s nice, having to only relearn some habits that use the thumb more now.

Back in the days, I tried an ergodox, but from it felt too big a change at the time. Now it feels just fine thanks to a gradual change.

Most people just don’t remember having to learn to type when young, nor that it was slow.

I think it’s worth it, and should be a default.

During the transition period, I recommend maybe dictation for example to handle short and fast messages with colleagues, and just some patience: rewiring your brain takes time.

After using split for 2 years I think that split matters, but less than ortho layout and angled sides.

I was user of MS Ergo keyboards ages ago, and such keyboard with qmk and ortho keys would be also great.

Anecdote: I bought preonic keyboard (small 5x12 rectangle) and struggle to use it, because I'm used to angled position of my split and it feels much.more natural for me now. Even given the fact that I don't have any issues with typical Thinkpad keyboard

Fromy experience it took about 2 months to adjust from Ms sculpt to zsa moonlander, and I didn't even changed layouts but stayed on qwerty. And yes, I had 2 keyboards attached for the adjustment period and was picking up old one if I needed to chat or type code/she'll commands

You can buy a split keyboard that allows you to use it in non-split mode, like mine.

After switching to a split keyboard (Dygma Raise), I can't live without it! Typing on a traditional keyboard really really sucks now, my hands never hurt before switching to a split keyboard, but now they do hurt if I spent the whole day typing on a laptop keyboard. I also absolutely love the "layer" thing and the thumb buttons, so I don't have to move my hands out of position to type things like arrow keys and home/end/pageup. 10/10 would recommend split keyboards to everyone.

I switched to dvorak over 10 years ago. It was worth it for RSI issues I was developing. I did 2 things that helped tremendously. I printed out the new keyboard layout and taped it to the wall above and behind my monitor. Instead of looking at the keyboard, I would look at the layout on the wall. I also taped a piece of paper to the top of the keyboard, and put my hands on the keys with the paper draped over my hands, so the qwerty keys of the keyboard would not distract me, and I was forced to look at the wall sign instead of the keys. I spent an entire weekend typing the sentence "The three lazy dogs jumped over the quick brown fox." That weekend got me to a slow but manageable speed. Over the next couple weeks I improved in terms of speed and accuracy, and now I can touch type faster than on qwerty, with no RSI issues.

A few years later I switched to a split keyboard which helped even more, especially with correct typing posture. I now use an ErgoDox EZ keyboard, with my own custom dvorak based layout, and am very happy over all. I can switch back to qwerty when necessary, but it takes a good 5 minutes for it to click in my head and then I can touch type, though not as fast because I am rusty at it.

I switched to an Ergodox-EZ about 3 years ago, and I don't regret doing it at all. I didn't switch layout tho, stayed on AZERTY.

My experience is that at first it was very frustrating. I went from ~80WPM on my macbook keyboard to ~20WPM on the ergodox. After a couple of weeks I was able to write text at a comfortable speed again, but any special character was painfully slow, as I had to consciously think where each character was, and often look it up on my layout. After about 3 months I was back up to 80WPM.

What took a long time as well, was configuring my layout to fit my programming needs, it took me about 6 months to come up with a layout that had everything I needed (you can see it here if you're curious[1]). My recommendation is to do it incrementally, trying with something general at first, then with use seeing what feels right and doesn't.

In the end it was a really good idea, a lot of back pain I had has gone away, and after long typing session I have way less pain in my wrists and hands.

[1]: https://configure.zsa.io/ergodox-ez/layouts/BOLz0/ybXMx/0

A split keyboard has been an excellent change for me, but it doesn't have to come with other changes such as unusual layout or orthogonal.

I went for Mistel Barocco. Its basically a normal layout but split down the middle.

Took almost zero time to get used to, as its basically a normal keyboard. The benefits of things like orthogonal layout seem questionable to me, but the split layout gives me an overall much more comfortable position at a desk.

This is the best move for most people IMO. The split setup is significantly more comfortable and your posture will thank you. But picking one with a traditional staggered layout means you’re already used to it.

Most people don’t want to have to relearn how to type in order to get more comfort. And switching to a linear layout and especially if you’re switching to Dvorak or Colemak you’ll be doing a lot of relearning.

I wish there were more options in the staggered split space though. Thankfully the mistel barocco is solid, but it is one of only a few options.

Check out keeb.io's Sinc. They just came out with rev3. I was using a few md770s until the sinc came out

Any suggestions on keycaps for the Sinc? I had looked into buying one of those before I got the md770, but realized I was diving deeper into the mechanical keyboard world than I ever intended lol.

Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB is also a great option for split row-staggered. Also get the optional tenting kit for even beter ergonomics.

I like the split keyboard on iPadOS - makes typing by thumb MUCH easier

I tried the "split ergonomic" keyboards starting back in the 90s ... hated them (still do)

I also remember the "chording" "BAT keyboard" [0] - which always seemed incredibly gimmicky

I've never been a touch typist

Learned to "type" via the '2-3 finger, hunt-and-peck' method ... an especially prevalent method (observationally) amongst my generation (late Gen-X, early Gen-Y - who had no typists in the family)

Yet today (30+ years on from "learned to type"), I'm a 60+ wpm typist (several fingers, quasi-site-type)

Observationally ... I see most people who "learned to type to program" as more-or-less of the hunt-and-peck [extended] family

There are days I wish I'd learn to "type properly"

Then I realize "it doesn't bloddy matter" ... and go about my day :)

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[0] https://www.infogrip.com/bat-keyboard.html

It does not really matter in terms of speed and productivity. But it helps in one way. Not thinking about typing means only the problem - and the solution - is your focus. As soon as you think of something, it appears, without needing to go back and forth. This led me to learn vim and now editing text is a mental model and not an activity. I can think several steps ahead while my fingers follow.

I'm a quasi-kinda-sorta touch typist now ... but I definitely "do it wrong" :)

Honestly even with default QWERTY/Z layout they are worth it.

Better typing position for hands, and the most underrated bonus - you can put ANYTHING between two halves.

Pen and paper + notes for solving harder problems? no problem

coffee mug and/or plate with breakfast? no problem.

Cellphone? also not a problem.

Honestly for pure programming don't focus on typing speed, as bulk of the work happens in the mind.

> Honestly for pure programming don't focus on typing speed, as bulk of the work happens in the mind.

It's worth being nuanced here.

I think nobody is spending hours typing out code without interruption. So, roughly (and imprecisely), if you spend 90% of your time thinking/reading, and 10% typing; then having half the typing speed would only make you 10% slower overall.

That said, even if we say that typing is a low-intensity part of programming, then it's still good to reduce the time you spend typing things out. (Though, surely there's a point of diminishing returns).

I was in a similar boat about 5 years ago: I couldn’t touch type, using some bastardized version of typing that saw me using two fingers on my right hand and three on my left. I was pretty fast (usually scoring ~100WPM), but always wanted to learn to do it for real.

I ended up buying an ErgoDox EZ, set it up with the Dvorak keyboard layout. The first six months SUCKED. I was slow, and there were times I would have to switch back to QWERTY to handle urgent issues. But 5 years on, I’m a very fast typer again and I love the Dvorak layout.

I’ve since picked up some other keyboards (including the Planck EZ) which are sometimes harder to get into, but I wouldn’t change learning to type the way I did.

It can be done. It does suck in the beginning. You’ll get it with practice.

PS I do recommend switching your phone layout to Colemak, and using things like TypingClub or KeyBR to practice. Best of luck!

It's very much worth it. I've relearned to type 2 or 3 times now (changing to using hands more equally with proper fingers, learning dvorak, learning workman). The first month or so can be rough, but if you're fully immersed and still computing, it gets better every day. I would recommend daily typing tests, making sure you know where every single symbol is on your keyboard, and aiming for accuracy. You can gain 5-10wpm per day near the start. Like with most skills, it really solidifies during sleep, so if you take a test after waking up in the morning each day, you should see very noticeable gains. I used monkeytype last time and tweaked the settings to be 60 seconds, capitals, numbers, and symbols all enabled, and for every new 10wpm milestone I'd write down the date I hit it.

I use the ErgoDox EZ, I love it and I've been RSI free with good, productive workflow.

My first non-standard keyboard was the Kinesis Advantage. When I first got it (to mitigate RSI), I went through a similar phase as you.

My solution was to stop everything else, get Mavis Bacon (any typing tutor really) and develop muscle memory. 1 week later, my productivity levels were manageable and I used the keyboard for regular work stuff. I continued Mavis Bacon for 2 more weeks. At the end of the 3rd week, I felt more productive than before. It's been 8 years now and I haven't turned back.

The switching to regular keyboards part might be a real issue if you are, like me, a creature of habit. I avoid it as much as possible.

Not the speed of typing counts, but rather the quality.

With me, a keyboard is a tool. If that tool helps me get things done, then it's my tool.

I know a few with a split keyboard, they can't use an ordinary keyboard anymore because of joint problems. So, it makes sense to have a split keyboard. There are other things to consider, too. Like the height of the chair and the table. Otherwise, a split keyboard do not have any advantage over an ordinary keyboard, when your sitting position is wrong.

So, it's a tool. Some appreciate the usage of a split keyboard, because of health issues. Beside that, you won't type faster or better code with a split keyboard :)

I’ve been through quite a few different keyboard types and sizes in the past 5-6 years and settled on a 42 key corne style as well which I really like. The speed is not the main thing that I’m after, it’s not having to move my hands around and the ability to customize it.

My suggestion to everyone trying new keyboards is the same: ignore the layouts of other people, make something that feels natural to you. Which key does it feel more natural to press for curly braces? Just put the damn thing where you want it to be. It’s much easier to change the keyboard to match your preferences than having to learn a new layout.

Thats exactly what I did. I use Colemak for alphas, but have a fully custom numbers and symbols layer. My problem is that I'm not sure if it's worth to overcome the struggle of adapting to split keyboard.

My daily driver has been lily58, which seems to have a good balance. It did take me quite a bit longer than I thought, but now it is quite comfortable - touch typing also feels more intuitive, especially with tenting. Prior to this, I was using Microsoft Sculpt ergonomic, which seems decent. However, after using lily58, even MS ergonomic keyboards feels less comfortable.

Definitely on the hobby side, rather than objectively better :) However, what made a massive difference for me was the tenting. Perhaps this is something that may help?

I have the same keyboard. It's amazing. I was used to QWERTY on a standard keyboard, but switched to Colemak Mod-DH for the Corne. I've been using it for two years, and my posture has never been better. Neither have I lost my proficiency in QWERTY. Currently, I type at about 50wpm on a standard keyboard and >100wpm on the corne.

It took me about four months to really get used to it, and even longer to type without looking at it (about six months).

how old are you?

Early 20's.

I think I could have become proficient at it sooner, but I used a "cheat sheet" (printed my layout for reference) and got used to looking at the reference while typing, which is a habit that took a while to kick. Otherwise, most of the time was spent actually learning how to touch type, because on a regular keyboard I'd never bothered to learn it, and instead typed however I'd picked it up over the years. Besides, when you're using an ergonomic keyboard you should focus on optimizing the layout / shortcuts to your advantage. That usually takes a couple of months, between writing the necessary desktop utilities for usage / modifying your text editor and then using the same to figure out which configuration works the best for you. If it really gels well with you it becomes muscle memory pretty quick.

I use a split keyboard for my work laptop when I'm at work. To tell the truth, it corrects my typing by forcing my fingers to the correct hands. I hate it! For years I've typed using whatever fingers could reach the desired keys and did not think about which hand I should use. Now it shows me down and I have to relearn my high school trying teacher's typewriter lessons.

In short, no physical pain, but not a fan. It's too slow.

This is what I fear after 30 years of typing in a single layout - maybe I should get the cheapest option from Aliexpress to test it.

I was looking at the Keychron Q11 (https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q11-qmk-custom-me...) but its double the price of the cheap Ali one...

I use a ZSA Moonlander with Colemak-DH layout. The interesting thing I have noted from the tough journey of learning Colemak-DH is that my Qwerty actually got better. So while it may be odd switching from one format to another initially, like being duolingual, you can actually switch it quite easily with time. There's no reason why you would be unproductive on the long run.

> goal of mastering the split keyboard

Is this your actual goal, or the means to some end? Do you need the ergonomics of split keyboard to deal with wrist pain, or do you just like the particular 42 key keyboard that you have?

There's not much special about typing on a split keyboard, I suspect your typing performance issues are mostly due to its miniature size and an unfamiliar keyboard layout.

You are right, the end goal is not mastering the keyboard, but rather become more efficient with typing. I do have occasional wrist pain, and after trying split keyboard, I don't understand why traditional keyboards exist-since they are far from being ergonomic.

So my end goal is optimization and workflow improvement. The problem is that those things are subjective. People type just fine on membrane keyboards, I can't touch them anymore.

Yes, worth it.

In my case, before the split keyboard I had severe pain in my wrists, and after the switch, it’s gone. There is an adjustment period, but the benefits are definitely worth the annoyance.

Which one do you use?

Kinesics ergo edge (gaming keyboard)

> I can't touch them anymore.

In my experience: while learning Dvorak, I found it difficult to type with QWERTY.

However, now that I'm used to split and ortholinear keyboards, I can type at the same speeds with either.

I did this same move about 8 months ago. I'm so much more fluid than I ever was before. Colemak and a good layering setup has made me much more "authoritative" when using the computer. It takes time, and patience. Just keep at it, jump in discord and chat a few hours a day, build that flow.

Why not both? You can use a splittkl like a md-770 or a Sinc, gets you a better posture while having virtually non-existent learning curve. Function keys and everything. The Sinc will get you qmk in case you want to use more esoteric features to reduce finger movement, but you don't have to.

You’ve got two good options:

First one is obviously to throw it out.

The other is to grind through with it, paying careful attention to the “right way” of doing things, and never deviating from it. The painful period might not be that much longer, or it might be.

Up to you, to be totally honest.

I've tried a few different style of keyboards including the corne and i ended up with an alice-layout keyboard.

its a good enough at opening my shoulders when i work and i don't have the super-steep learning curve that ortho would add.

Don't conflate split keyboards with the silly trend of having a low number of keys so that it looks kawaii in photos.

i have a planck, a preonic, a moonlander and i am not happy with any of them.

My best choice i think would be a better version of the Natural Ergonomics Microsoft Elite Keyboard. This thing with half height mechanical keys, qmk firmware, without the numpad and a split space key would be awesome. Maybe i am building one, thinking about it know