Germany switches off its last nuclear plants | Hacker News Reader

Germany switches off its last nuclear plants

apnews.com

3 pointsgame_the0ry18 comments

When you put this in context with the increased usage of coal power plants and even something like the E-Fuels Germany is pushing on Europe, Germany really does seem like a very peculiar country in multiple aspects.

Coal has decreased in germany since the beginning of the nuclear phaseout.

The recent uptick (still less than it decreased by) has a lot more to do with decreased hydro and gas, as well as exports to replace missing nuclear generation elsewhere.

Well while I think it was a mistake to do in the short term, Germany has been preparing for this for a while.

However for greener energy advocates it looks like Fusion really is close to being viable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_ignition#2021_and_2022_...

Fusion is not close[1] and it's insane to give up on fission while waiting for it. Fission is safe and inexpensive. With the addition of batteries to spread out the base load, we should be expanding it globally.

1. https://theconversation.com/amp/limitless-power-arriving-too...

Um fusion being close to being viable, which your link is supporting, doesn't mean it's close enough to help us this century with regarding climate change (which is what your link is about), which isn't what I said it would do. I apologize if I worded it a way that you felt implied that.

South Korea I understand is investing heavily here[1]. If I'm not mistaken so is China. Too bad we (Western society) can't work with Iran on this as well.

However, please consider when we talk about changing our sources of energy over, that what will work has to work within costs and regulatory conditions.

If I'm not mistaken it can take around 20 years for an experienced nuclear capable nation to get a reactor up and running from initial phase of saying yes you can build a reactor.

Solar is outpacing that.[2] Which your link also supports.

"The pattern of power supply is changing. The massive take-up of solar power by households means we have now permanently shifted from the old model of large power stations to one where supply is distributed around the network. "

Fission (by itself) is not solving climate change this century either.

Additionally I think fission powered cargo ships would be a great option to reduce carbon emissions too. Since the U.S. Navy is very experienced with nuclear powered vessels and Russia has that nuclear powered icebreaker, I think it's technology possible.

Unfortunately setting up a regularity system for that is likely completely unrealistic though I'm happy to be wrong here.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_South_Korea

2. https://news.energysage.com/solar-vs-nuclear-battle-for-the-...

But why not keep a perfectly good source of energy active until fission and green make up the difference? Makes no sense.

Fukushima happened and that was how Germany decided to respond.

Hours before shutting down, a German utility company announced a 45% price increase.

https://thedeepdive.ca/e-on-hikes-energy-prices-45-as-german...

Note they are attributing some of the increase to the higher than average/normal price for energy since Ukraine war started.

"The electric company defended the increase, saying they cushioned the much more expensive purchasing costs for customers for an above-average period of time during the energy crisis but had to secure future amounts of energy for customers at high prices on the wholesale markets last year."

No doubt the war has an affect, but why shut down a perfectly good source of energy?

Because the German citizens voted for it.

Is Germany a direct democracy? If instead it is a Representative Democracy then I would expect my Representative to act in my interest not on my whim.

In the U.S. I expect my Representative to act in the interest of what will get them re-elected.

I am not too familiar with the ins-and-outs of Germany's politcal system though it appears to be a popular position.

https://www.dw.com/en/merkel-shuts-down-seven-nuclear-reacto...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel#Chancellor_of_Ge...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany

There is no point to having a Representative if they act against my interest based on my popular misunderstandings. I can act against my own interest via direct democracy.

I'm just saying how it is in the U.S. in practice.

Regardless ending nuclear power in Germany is a popular enough position that Merkel was re-elected. Probably not just on that issue but she listened to what her people wanted and she kept getting elected because of it (as far as I know; I'm not German).

How does it happen that one of reasons for this is to become more environment friendly?

Nuclear waste is an expensive problem, but the real reason for this is decades of fearmongering and protests. People are afraid of having another Chernobyl.

Maybe one day the electricity prices and anti-carbon movements will make Germans to unprotest this commit. Strategy of just avoiding to live near nuclear objects seems like an endless times wiser than bulling ones.

Chornobyl is a fun place to visit to be honest. I have never seen a more wild and healthy nature anywhere else. Our nature deserves to have such reserve of humanless.

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