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Comment by rcarr | Hacker News Reader

Here’s another thing no one talks about because it’s taboo: drink driving. Right up until the mid 70s, it was completely socially acceptable to drink and drive. Now I agree that it was probably a good thing that’s it’s been banned, but having to pay for and organise transportation to go to whatever event it is you want to go to adds another substantial layer of friction to socialising. Not to mention the fact that the alcohol itself meant people were probably more sociable. It seems that due to all our technological and cultural change since the 70s we’re living physically healthier and safer lives but at the cost of poorer social and mental health.

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This is why I love living in a city with a reliable train network. So many times I have left a party completely drunk late at night, and been perfectly able to manage my way back home. Seems like Americans are left with the choice to either risk killing someone/themselves driving home or just not going out.

> Seems like Americans are left with the choice to either risk killing someone/themselves driving home or just not going out.

If only there was a service where you can pay money to be driven somewhere... I heard Americans invented these smartphones with apps, Maybe they can even invent an app-based version of that paid ride service!

Yeah if I had to pay $50+ (The actual price uber charges for this trip) to get home, I'd just stay home.

Thankfully with a functioning public transport network, it costs me $4

That sounds like quite a distance.

Taxis are incredibly cumbersome to hail, if not impossible, in less dense areas. Uber is also relatively new on the scene in the grand scheme of it. You didn't always have that option.

If I spend $15 on drinks then Ubering to and from has just at least tripled my cost of going out.

If going out with friends costs $20 a head instead of $45, more people will want to do it.

Even with trains, commute isn't free.

Yes, you can see I costed out a non-car round trip at $5. In NYC on the MTA it would be $5.50; in DC, between $4 and $8.

One thing I do in DC is ride bikeshare to the bar (where the amortized cost of the ride, with my annual membership, is basically $0) and then take metro back ($2).

And of course this is all moot if you can just walk, since it is always free, which is one major benefit of denser mixed use walkable neighborhoods.

This is a comment by a rich person who is ignoring the subject matter, or someone who hasn't used uber post-covid

Move to Baltimore, my friend. There are at least six bars within five blocks of my house. You’d have to get pretty sloshed to not be able to make the walk back.

Yeah, totally safe walking drunk in Baltimore at night...

Lay off the Fox News

Yeah, it's just Fox. Not official crime statistics.

Or even Wikipedia: "The American city of Baltimore, Maryland, is notorious for its crime rate, which ranks well above the national average. Violent crime spiked in 2015 after the death of Freddie Gray on April 19, 2015, which touched off riots and an increase in murders. The city recorded 348 homicides in 2019, a number second only to the number recorded in 1993 when the population was nearly 125,000 higher."

In context, the UK, with 65+ million people had like 700 for 2022, or around 60 times less per population...

I don't understand why people like to bath in drama like this. Yes, there are statistics... But, to be a bit cynic, you can spend your whole life being afraid of everything. But you can not spend the rest of your death being sorry about the decision that led to your demise. IOW, I'd much rather have a burden-free life where I might be a little unlucky and die before I reach the average lifespan... Instead of being careful and afraid the whole time but very old and bored.

Is it that my doctor told me that I have only a 50/50 chance of reaching the age of 30 that I see risks as a worthwhile thing to embark on. Or am I just stupid not wanting to waste my life with fear and not caring enough about becoming old?

> a burden-free life where I might be a little unlucky and die

Unlucky is being the victim of a random crime that leaves you crippled for life, not a clean death. I follow someone on social media like that, who was shot and left a paraplegic in a high-crime city.

Parts of Baltimore are objectively dangerous and it's not being dramatic to acknowledge that or want to avoid it. At some point it had a higher murder rate than the most murderous countries in the world, like El Salvador or Honduras; coincidentally, people from those countries are seeking a better life in the US, and I don't suppose you would say they should stay and have a burden-free life there?

>I don't understand why people like to bath in drama like this. Yes, there are statistics... But, to be a bit cynic, you can spend your whole life being afraid of everything.

Or you can spend your life in a safe, normal, environment, not just a crime ridden place, where crime of course doesn't end with homicides (those are the tip of the iceberg).

You know, so that you can have kids playing outside, cops not shooting first and asking questions later because of the crime rate, women not afraid of being raped or assaulted, and so on...

>Is it that my doctor told me that I have only a 50/50 chance of reaching the age of 30 that I see risks as a worthwhile thing to embark on. Or am I just stupid not wanting to waste my life with fear and not caring enough about becoming old?

You literally compared a crime ridden city to a terminal illness with big chances of dying before your time. Couldn't have put it better myself.

That people can still find joy in life or live their lives as best as they can, is orthogonal.

People can also find joy and love, and a purpose, while their country is at war, but that's not something we should tolerate as if "war/peace, it's all the same to me".

Go to https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com/?range=2022. Only 10 white people and 1 Asian were murdered in Baltimore last year. 210 African Americans were. It sucks, and it’s unacceptable socially and politically, but in terms of my own personal safety, it would be absurd for me to fear being murdered more than I fear getting hit by a car or whatever else.

That’s not to say I’m totally disconnected from it. I know I’m one degree from someone who was murdered, and I’m sure if I knew all the two degree separations, it would be staggering, but again, in terms of my life, I don’t do drugs and I don’t live in a neighborhood with gang shootings, so I’ll be fine.

For reference, 348 homicides in one year for a city of half a million people is the same risk (using the micromort) as base jumping twice in the same year, or driving 175k miles, or 85ish skydives.

Yeah, nothing to see here, move along...

heh no, America was taught by Hollywood to be afraid of Baltimore (The Wire)

People used to live in a relatively much safer country (which makes for all of the western world, western europe, UK, Australia, Japan, etc.) should be afraid of most American cities - especially certain areas and hours.

It's just that Americans in those cities have learned to normalize this violence all around them. They're OK with abnormally large rates of homicide, burglary, theft, rape, and acompanying ill like school shootings, police killings...

All major cities have areas and neighborhoods that are higher risk and not “safe”. You wouldn’t let your kid there, your partner or yourself go there typically.

I lived in North Philadelphia throughout college and a couple years after. It isn’t a lie to say you are operating at a different level of vigilance. Your behaviors change. So no, Hollywood didn’t tell me anything about North Philly, my experience did.

It’s quite amusing how everyone is saying US cities are safe and great like Baltimore, while they’re also saying “if you mostly stay in the gentrified or well established areas”. Is that even Baltimore then? Or a bubble within Baltimore?

> Is that even Baltimore then? Or a bubble within Baltimore?

If it's in Baltimore, then yes, it's in Baltimore. Why wouldn't it count? If a foreigner says, "America is unsafe" and you say, "Well, my suburb is safe," can they say, "Oh, that's not America"?

Those unsafe places are also America. I don't think anyone is arguing that there aren't some places in the US that are safe, but that on the whole, it's a lot more dangerous than Europe. The fact that some Americans have the means to shield themselves from it while others don't just emphasises the inequality.

My biggest problem, though, is the fact that schools are unsafe. The fact that schools need to practice shooter drills is heartbreaking.

When I was younger and went out drinking more often, I walked home from bars in Baltimore all the time. What the stats leave out is that (not getting into the deep politics of redlining and gentrification) the vast majority of violent crime just doesn't involve the pub districts and less neglected residential areas.

Yes, people will get mugged in the "nicer" neighborhoods once in a while. It's not something to discount or ignore. But when you hear about yet another gang shooting over the weekend, it's unlikely to be someone walking home from the bar in Hampden or Fells Point. It's in one of the neighborhoods that has seen disinvestment and poverty (and the resulting gang, drug trade, and violent activity) for generations.

On one hand I would love to not have to worry about the crime stats where I live. I don't want to avoid other people because I worry about getting mugged walking home at night. But I also hate the idea that everyone follows the same "move out as soon as you have kids/can afford it/get to a certain age" plan. It's like a constant, slow urban flight where people who are well-off enough to contribute to the city leave and only the poorest and least privileged residents remain.

I love that I can walk to so many places. When the city shut down due to a blizzard, I was fine not driving for a week or two. When it's nice out, I can walk 3 blocks to a massive park and see live music or a cultural festival. I can drive, but I can also bike or bus to work if my car is in the shop. Waterfront is walking distance. Shopping, restaurants, pubs, and galleries too. Oh, and my house cost under $200k (although I bought it a few years before the current price spike).

Yeah, I maintained https://homicides.news.baltimoresun.com for a while. Sad but true, there are one or two high profile murders in Fells Point per year, but if you're white or Asian, you are very unlikely to be murdered. It's almost all African Americans in the butterfly. I mean, it's a goddamn tragedy. You can see parts of Cherry Hill where every single block has a victim on it. Just heartbreaking stuff. But for me living in my neighborhood, murder is basically not a factor. Obviously any city you'll have to worry about muggings, but that's city life.

Another good argument for walkable cities and good public transportation.

It's still "totally acceptable" to drink and drive pretty much anywhere in small town USA. The cops won't even pull you over. Unless you are poor.

It's still completely socially acceptable to drink and drive, at least in "redneck" parts of the country.

Not even redneck. Basically anywhere without public transit/uber people will get fairly drunk and drive.

Yeah, you're getting downvoted but this is true in rural/semi-rural areas.

In another discussion about birth rate, somebody wrote something like this here in HN. "It's a lot safer on the street since we drink less and drive. So this saves many lives. But since we drink less, we meet less people and we make fewer children. But this "never born" children are in no statistic."

A person being killed and a person not being born are not the same thing at all.

I did not say "does not matter / it's the same". It was more like a point, how one thing (less alcohol) might does influece something else (fewer children).

Uber makes things a lot simpler.

Not in rural areas. Maybe for suburbs. At least in SF ppl Uber a fair bit, but I suspect most trips on a night out are not replacing someone driving their own car.

Maybe, but it also adds a (let's say) $20+$20 to your bill at the end of the night. For a lot of Americans that's not exactly cheap.

More like $50 there and $70 back.

Also, you can be banned from Uber. It is rare, but it can happen, and then what.

"If you can't afford that price for a ride, plus a $50 tip on top for the hard-working driver, you're a piece of scum and you should just stay home." - typical liberal American

"This is the Free Market at work, and if you can't afford it, you're poor and should just stay home. Poor people are subhuman trash." - typical conservative American

At least here in Brisbane, Australia, it went from $5-10/ride at the peak of VC funding mania to $25-50/ride now

At least it still beats the experience of taxis in Brisbane. Before Uber were allowed at the airport, I had multiple trips where drivers assumed I was a visitor and tried to take me on circuitous routes to increase their fares, and the experience after nights out was no better.

Since the infinite funding stopped artificially holding prices low, I still found Uber cheaper generally speaking, and with a better experience. (I will say that my experience living in the UK does not hold the same; taxis here are generally better.)

I agree. A DUI costs easily $10K regardless of outcome. Lost opportunity cost of not networking (job opportunity, friend opportunity, happiness, therapy) easily has the same cost over just a few years. Uber is very cheap in comparison… many people don’t make the comparison.

I had a DUI. Cost me 3k-ish. It only cost 10k to hire an attorney who will tell you to plead guilty anyways. Money well spent...

If you're in Wisconsin, you get a punch card. Tenth one's free!

Found the rich person who thinks 50$ to go 8 miles is normal

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