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Comment by moralestapia | Hacker News Reader

The paradox is that LOTs of people feel this way (me included), and lots of them would be willing to put some real effort into developing new friendships. Yet it still doesn't happen. Now, what could be behind that? (Not rhetorical, genuinely interested)

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"Friendship" doesn't happen in a vacuum. You need dependence and value exchange between two "friends." Technology has replaced most of our needs and dependence on other people, with great economic benefit. The downside is it eliminates the need for other humans, and consequently removes the potential for fulfilling relationships.

Just two example out of millions: Uber reduces the need to have friends drive you to the airport. ChatGPT reduces the need to ask your friends about their areas of expertise.

This comment puts into words what I feel. For example, my parents generation immigrated to the US, and are very close as a diaspora/tribe. They can go to any city and visit a friend of a friend’s house and be considered friends themselves. But they all went through the same immigrant struggle of establishing themselves in a foreign nation, relying on their network to be able to vacation and travel since they did not have enough money to stay in hotels or eat out or fly.

However, ALL the kids of that generation have none of that connection to each other. We would feel like we are imposing if we called a cousin’s friend in a different city to hang out or stay over. We prefer to stay in nice hotels, and fly to exotic destinations. And I don’t think we can re-create the type of relationships our parents had with their extended tribe, no matter what, since we are all very independent.

Counterpoint: my parents came to the US when I was a child and they have none of those things. Their family ties weren't strong enough to last. Their ties to family back home deteriorated. There is no diaspora of extended family in other cities. Their own relationship was toxic and abusive, and they divorced. They are now living out old age alienated, isolated, and alone. They're not rare, they're just not nearly as vocal as the "my big, fat Greek wedding"-type people.

in fact - that's the reason advice can backfire. modern day online friends can end up being somewhat incompatible when moved closer together

I've always thought about the fact how it used to be super common to ask a stranger for directions somewhere, something that would be completely ridiculous today given the ability to find anything yourself. So now when I happens I recognize that they aren't strictly just looking to get somewhere, but to talk to someone.

An argument is that friendships are rarely planned, and involve a variety of unexpected, fortuitous encounters. It's easy to make friendships in high school or college, as you really get to see a bunch of people over and over again, and eventually a few will become your friends. A long enough tenure at a job can do something similar.

But look at how we have life set up in a US suburb, where all our travel is in an environment where we cannot talk to anyone, most of our commerce is done in places designed to get you in and out as fast as possible, and where employees rotate often enough it might not be all so easy to ever make them register as people, much less build relationships with you. Stopping anywhere is inconvenient enough that that few people spend a significant amount of time lounging anywhere other than their home. So where are you, exactly, supposed to make friends? You have to be trying pretty hard.

People's best bets is to pick up a hobby where people meet regularly, like an exercise class, or a boardgame meetup. Then you have enough people that the probabilities of finding someone compatible go up.

For me its mostly projecting my own insecurities onto others. Being in a space where you are guaranteed a shared interest with others (places hobbies get practiced at, volunteering gigs) is a great way to aleviate the fear of rejection, looking like a weirdo, creep or whatever.

It's nice that you know what kind of things you can improve on, that's like 90% of the road traveled.

I spent a few years running a startup that was tackling this very issue. Sadly getting $ for "solving social isolation in America's cities" was hard to do, but I am still confident that the approach the company was taking would have worked for at least a double digit % of people.

tl;dr friendship is formed when there is alignment of values/personality (but not in the way people always expect), and also when a lot of time it put in.

The time thing is powers of 10. IIRC, 10 hours to get to know someone as an acquittance, 100 hours is a casual friend, 1000 hours is a good friend, and 10,000 hours is a lifelong friend you can really depend on.

The way to fast track this process is to create a shared feeling of oppression. Military boot camps rely on this technique to rapidly form group bonds. It is the same idea behind quite a few team building outings as well. It is also why college dormmates can form long lasting relationships, lots of time spent together during a period of high stress.

Same goes for people working at high pressure startups together.

"You're not uncool. Making friends as an adult is just hard" - https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/11/10/making-friends-ad...

Hey, we sort of became friends last month :D

We are friends, friend! :)

Are you out there putting in effort to find and make friends?

Of course!

Nice work!

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