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Comment by mort96 | Hacker News Reader

What happens when the apps which used to be available on the app store get taken down and made sideload-only, like what Epic did with Fortnite on Android?

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If you don't want to sideload, then don't. If companies don't want to be on the platform app store anymore, it's not the end of the world. I ran a windows phone for several years; if there's no app for something, there's usually a website, and Safari is loads more usable than mobile IE or mobile Edge; so you're fine for the most part.

Yeah, you might lose out on playing FPS games on your phone, but is that really a loss?

The net loss is to society when Meta pulls Instagram from the official store and says "to continue using Instagram, go to instagram.com in safari and follow the instructions".

And they could close overnight from lack of millions of users.

Apple is not required to make it “download file and double click” easy, the best course for action would be making it relatively hard to enable so that no one’s grandma will be able to follow the instructions.

It hasn't killed Fortnite and people just as addicted to fb/insta.

Fortnite has a different audience with different needs.

I fail to see the net loss to society in this scenario.

I feel the HN crowd vastly overestimates both Meta's willingness to abandon the App Store and the average user's ability to "follow the instructions."

>like what Epic did with Fortnite on Android?

Epic pulled Fortnite from Google Play Store in 2018 because they wanted to keep more of Google's 30% share and they were back in 18 months because most people aren't that determined to get an app outside of the official app store.

Any company pulling their apps from the App Store must have a pretty good reason to do so, because they're gonna be decimating their download numbers.

I also think Google dropped down to 15% IIRC

> Epic pulled Fortnite from Google Play Store ... and they were back in 18 months because most people aren't that determined to get an app outside of the official app store.

Can you please link me to the Fortnite page on the Play store?

That's an unrelated issue. They're not on the Google Play Store anymore because Google banned them. But they most definitely did come back to the Play Store with their tail between their legs, and even made some salty comments on life outside the Play Store.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/21/21229943/epic-games-fortn...

Are you implying that allowing companies the choice to go sideload-only is a bad thing?

It is a good thing that mainstream users get their apps from somewhere that they've been reviewed by a third party. A world where sideloading from anywhere becomes a normal thing for mainstream users to do, is bad for privacy and security.

eg.: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2040/1924189728_668c4bc4e2.jpg

Users deserve freedom with their devices regardless whether you think they should have it.

The internet is valuable because it is open and free. Meanwhile the appstore complies with authoritarian regimes.

I disagree with the idea that an open internet somehow means that proprietary devices shouldn't be permitted to connect to it.

If the company is big enough (e.g. not using whatsapp is not an option for a lot of people), or if the app comes from a state that can force you to install it by law, yes it can be.

As opposed to Apple being big enough that they can bully developers into both building for their platform and distributing through the channels they christen?

Yes. All hail the walled garden, didn’t know it’s what I wanted but it is.

The PC is my playground, I want my phone to be rock solid and someone else to do the weeding there.

Don’t worry, you can bet Apple is going to make sideloading as awkward as possible within the bounds of the law. It’s not like Apple woke up one day and decided they don’t like money. It will only be useful for hobbyists.

I'm saying that "[you can] simply just get apps from the official store" is not necessarily correct. I'm not making a value judgement about whether that's a good or a bad thing.

Yes, I’ve come to trust apple and they protect their consumers privacy. I don’t have the same level of trust in other companies.

I hope Epic does this for the Bandcamp store on iOS (Epic bought Bandcamp recently). The iOS app disallows the purchasing of digital music, but if they can get around the App Store policies then I can purchase digital music from the app without needing to go to the mobile site.

I'm curious what benefit this would actually yield to you? Is it simply just the case of not having to leave the app? Because aside from that, there would (likely) be no IAP; you'd still be required to give your financial info directly to the app.

I suppose the current situation is that buying is disabled in the app because it is not allowed by Apple (without going trough them and pay the 30% cut), but in an app outside the store it could be enabled.

The same thing that happened before: you either chose to install it and side-load it or you don't. Side-loading is something that only a very marginal minority of people do. I don't understand the fearmongering.

Anyway when you sideload an app on an Android phone, the APK is scanned to check if it's secure to install.

Permission wise, nothing changes.

Policy wise, it means no Apple tax and maybe some publisher will be able to cut prices, to the users' benefit.

It probably wont succeed, the play store still exists for a reason.

Fortnite seems plenty popular.

Still it didn't kill the play store did it? No body is forcing you to install it.

Not because of the ability to sideload. Most people want to play it on console or PC.

As dumb as it sounds, I'd buy a second phone for side loading things if I needed to use enough of those apps. Before side loading on my personal phone, I'd want enough real world time to pass to make sure it's not easy to find vulnerabilities that lead to a complete compromise by side loading (they will be found, but it needs to be "zero-click text message for root" levels of rarity).

They are still going to be sandboxes, regular permissioned, apps. Nothing changes for most apps except they get a 100% cut of in-app sales.

And can put up a banner that says "Sorry - to improve your experience, you must enable 'always' location tracking".

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