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Comment by herbst | Hacker News Reader

You can not upload to pornhub and associated sites without a constent form. Every video is checked before it goes live.

I am not sure why so many journalists always miss this fact when they claim it's a bed for human trafficking and child pornography

Or am I missing something?

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Indeed. The porn industry is quite serious about following the letter of the law, so it was strange that pornhub lost support from mastercard and visa when that NYT op ed came out.[1]

This antiporn movement is more about control and censorship than protecting children.

Statistical evidence, please.

We are not at the university and writing a thesis here. It is freedom of speech and opinions are formed freely.

Not the exact issue you were commenting on, but it struck me as a little weird to have a [1] and no link or footnote that goes with it

I think this is the op ed being referenced https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-ra...

yep, forgot to include the link

Do you have any statistical evidence that PornHub is being used for the crimes described above, despite the processes and procedures the parent comment outlines?

If you’re only demanding “statistical evidence, please” from the people questioning if something is really happening contrary to policies and procedures, you’re asking the wrong people.

"The porn industry is quite serious about following the letter of the law" and "This antiporn movement is more about control and censorship than protecting children." are both claims that require evidence to be judged whether true or false.

https://help.pornhub.com/hc/en-us/articles/5357457259155-202...

PornHub has transparency reports tracking how many upload there are to the system, where they come from, how many uploads get removed, how the removals were detected (e.g. by your user report, detected by internal tools before anyone saw them, etc.) they also discuss and the automated systems and manual processes they use. It’s all rather sophisticated, including an AI train system that does age estimation to detect, previously unknown, CSAM material.

I'm pretty sure, it had something to do with Wirecard. They had been the payment processor from Pornhub. Just a the same time, when some parts of the old Wirecard got sold, Pornhub deleted a lot of stuff "because of the children".

Its called puritan pandering for clicks.

Being against exploitation is puritan?

The question is if the current website even had exploitation issues for anyone to complain about. As far as I can tell it's as ethical as it can get on the internet as PH is right now

Pornhub, a few years ago, wasn't this strict. It was a hotbed for revenge porn. Because it's now cleaned up, because it had to, doesn't mean companies like Visa and Mastercard have to come back and work with it.

That wasn't the point. Visa and master getting more and more irrelevant and porn Industrie being once again a driving factor in this process is a good thing.

The point was that there is no reason to blame the current PH for their ethical standards, or rather that I think we should appreciate good standards and make them an actual standard instead of playing the blame game

> That wasn't the point.

What's the point then? It's not "puritan pandering".

They screwed up as a company, and other companies stopped working with them. Because they cleaned up their act doesn't mean those same companies are required to come back to the table otherwise it's puritan pandering. Because they now have "ethical standards" does not mean the context of how they ended up in this situation suddenly poofs.

> Because they cleaned up their act doesn't mean those same companies are required to come back to the table otherwise

on the other hand if there is no benefit to cleaning up ones act why ever do it?

"Exploitation" is a word that can be easily twisted to mean whatever you want it to mean. So, using these words in an emotional, irrational appeal may be puritan, but most of all it's intellectually dishonest and manipulative.

So, Puritan can't be twisted? Using isn't being emotional and irrational?

The claim that it's a bed for human trafficking and child pornography is the reason they now require user verification and consent forms.

At the time it was a valid criticism, now it weirdly feels like misdirection or disingenuous puff piece because the seedy underbelly of porn streaming and piracy has probably shifted elsewhere.

I see that. But at this point in time PH as as ethical as it can get for porn creators and consumers. It's sad when we do not appreciate this fact and force others to follow but still blame it for the same old, now invalid, reasons

> But at this point in time PH as as ethical as it can get for porn creators and consumers.

I'm extremely sex work and porn positive, but the current status quo doesn't mean they're doing all they can. This is a bit of a distracting comment, because indeed, things are better than most expect, but could always be better.

But how? I spent more time thinking about these things than I would like to and having a passport copy for any individual publishing on their site and checking each video manually before putting it live is basically as good as it gets.

I am not trying to excuse PornHub. Like most I've seen myself that they didn't care a lot not to long ago. But we need to move forward, find better ways and make porn fun for anyone.

Yeah, from that mechanical review purview, yes—a lot is already happening. But I have friends in the industry (not in PH, but friends who went into OF), and there's more that can be done, particularly in the mental health, comment moderation, & community moderation/engagement department.

> But we need to move forward, find better ways and make porn fun for anyone.

+1,000!

OF is particularly bad when we talk about mental health & moderation because most happens in enclosed spaces and your stalkers are also your customers. OF doesn't really seem to care either.

On PH most texting is public, comments usually have a positive attitude so I assume a lot of moderation is done. I don't think it compares well.

However i see we both share some important values :)

> I am not sure why so many journalists always miss this fact when they claim it's a bit bed for human trafficking and child pornography

> Or am I missing something?

Seems you're missing that they used past tense in the article? specifically not present tense?

> But it matters when the asset you are buying is Pornhub because — as we’ve covered — its policies impact sex trafficking globally.

That is equating Pornhub with sex trafficking.

No, it says its policies affect sex trafficking. The recent move towards verifying consent has arguably helped combat sex trafficking for pornography. Their verification rules are the standard which sex traffickers must now try to work around.

Saying that it has a position of responsibility against trafficking is not saying it's equal to trafficking.

> The recent move towards verifying consent has arguably helped combat sex trafficking for pornography.

This is not the sort of effect that the article is likely alluding.

What makes you say that?

This came about as a result of many years of profit from non-consensual intimate media and many lawsuits from victims.

Yes they seem to be doing everything above board now but victims and their allies have a right to voice their worries and hopefully have them assuaged.

Is it possible on their scale to verify that the consents are really voluntary?

I am not sure which problem you are going for but if they have porn of a person that didn't consent they can just get it taken down. Pretty sure PH doesn't hold the rights to the videos. The right holder (creator, star, ..) can have their content removed anytime.

In actual cases of exploitation the victim is not always the technical rights holder and there are many reports of people who inform Pornhub of being in a video they do not consent to and it not being taken down.

I would argue that Pornhub is trying though, whether it's their best effort I don't know.

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