Comment by 1vuio0pswjnm7 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by 1vuio0pswjnm7 | Hacker News Reader

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"The attitude difference with respect to document holds was hilarious."

megcampbell@google.com: "it needs to be history off"

https://ia802501.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.22...

schramm@google.com: "should we have history off for this?"

https://ia802501.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.22...

margaretlam@google.com: "Hi Tim, if OK, can I ask you to turn history off :)"

https://ia802501.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.22...

margaretlam@google.com: [interesting exchange with another employee who is trying to follow the rules]

https://ia802501.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.22...

Paraphrasing: "What policy? I'm on multiple legal holds as well. I ignore them every day [smileyface] But if you want to follow the rules, I'll respect your decision. I'll just communicate with the others off the record. I only included you for optics reasons."

Some would say that company culture starts at the top. Here's the 50-year-old CEO:

https://ia802501.us.archive.org/21/items/gov.uscourts.dcd.22...

I assume my private messages are always public record, so I don’t get this mindset. My first thought when messaging someone is, “What if they screenshot or leak this conversation?” or “What if their message history is subpoenaed?” It never makes sense to assume confidentiality with other coworkers.

Wow, that's not just "hey let's be careful", it's "hey, screw all that legal hold stuff, lol!"

What kind of legal guidance were these people getting? When I worked at a big corp, we had regular meetings with legal that were reminders of how to treat sensitive subjects and it was taken very seriously.

Very clear that Google also had lots of legal guidance and training on this issue, but their training was trying to achieve a different outcome.

>> “please do not share sensitive information here where possible . . . . Until we fix room architecture, content here is searchable/discoverable within the corp.” (Id. Ex. 27, GOOG-PLAY5-000163640.)

Exactly.

When 'fix' means ensure conversations that are already under current legal hold are destroyed, it's clear what legal guidance and training are.

I hope the court nails their execs to the wall for pulling shit like this as a matter of corporate policy.

We've all (externally) seen Google do extremely dodgy shit over the years, claiming the whole time "it's legal, we're fully compliant with all needed legislation".

The internal legal guidance they've been getting for this case is likely exactly the same as their internal legal guidance for everything else.

eg "completely full of shit" that they're complying with things

Seems like a bad internal culture, maybe stemming from their weird self belief and exceptionalism because "we're smarter than everyone else"?

Either way, when Google claims things like "We're fully compliant with GDPR, or [other legislation/requirements here]", the documented examples above is why many people don't believe them in the slightest.

> What kind of legal guidance were these people getting?

The kind that looked at the Microsoft anti-trust lawsuits in the 90s, and instead of saying, I dunno, "let's not try and gain and wield illegal monopoly powers" but "let's delete all the evidence of us gaining and wielding illegal monopoly power".

It's funnier when you realize that this is happening because no one knows how to talk on the phone anymore.

Wow it has been maybe 15 years since I called someone at work, about work using a phone.

ack@google.com: "Folks, *Please do consider if we nee to start a HISTORY OFF chat for this?* Threaded chats you can't turn off history."

https://ia601707.us.archive.org/28/items/gov.uscourts.cand.3...

jsinouye@google.com: "Hi, please use this chat for ops/policy/BD/escalations issues that need faster response. Please note: I would like to keep history off. Members are Shie, Camille, Dan, Court, Sherry, Jintae, Ash, Jami, me."

https://ia801707.us.archive.org/28/items/gov.uscourts.cand.3...

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