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Comment by DrThunder | Hacker News Reader

Maybe stop making a throw away phone first if you're actually interested in being "green".

My previous iPhone 8 lasted from 2016 to 2023. The only reason I stopped using it was because I accidentally broke the screen and the touch panel under it. It still received new iOS versions and updates.

What exactly is throwaway about that when compared to the hundreds of variants Samsung and others produce with a 2 year lifespan and then no updates after?

“Throwaway” may be hyperbole, but the average lifespan in terms of iOS versions for an iPhone is about 5-6 years. (On the low side, someone who bought an iPhone SE in September 2018 only got four years.) The issue is that the hardware often works fine for 10 years or more. Nowadays it’s usually software that makes devices obsolete, without any real necessity.

> The issue is that the hardware often works fine for 10 years or more.

I don't know about that. It technically still works, but you will feel it being slow because developers keep updating their apps to take advantage of new technologies and features. Even browsing the web keeps getting worse because web developers seem to cruft up their websites as much as the hardware can bear.

I really think around 5 years is the limit to be able to use your phone as an general purpose, internet connected device. If you want to repurpose it into an iPod Touch or Smarthome remote controller or something after that that's still doable even if you're using a deprecated version of iOS.

The story with iPads is a little different. If all it is for most people is a streaming service and article-reading machine those can last 10 years or more and the OS probably should have a longer life and a higher priority on making the batteries easily serviceable. I'd actually love a stripped-down, barebones version of iPad OS that makes it dumber but more secure. Sort of like booting in safe mode, for when people want to repurpose old devices.

This is part of the criticism, though: There is no inherent need for the software to become slower (and less efficient). Throwing the hands up on that front just means we’ll eternally keep churning, in the name of “progress”.

I think you are forgetting what phone apps 10 years ago looked like and the features they had. It’s not useless bloat that’s slowing them down, it’s the addition of actual features people like and take advantage of.

Even aside from the good point Gigachad also made, it's not really under Apple's control to make web and app developers be more efficient. People just develop and scope for the power envelope the hardware can provide. It would be great if they optimized for cutting bloat, but they just don't and there's nobody with the ability to dictate that they do.

App review processes are already opaque and inconsistent enough with fairly straightforward rules around what is and isn't around. I don't think devs are going to like it if Apple starts getting opinionated about how you're doing indexing on your SQL.

I believe older iPhones still get security updates for a very long time. Much longer than 5 years, making them one of the longest-term supported devices on the market currently.

The 5s got one in 2023.

https://www.makeuseof.com/apple-security-updates-for-10-year...

Older Android phones also get security updates for a long time via Google Play Services!

And what happens if the security vulnerability is found in the operating system itself and not Google Play Services.

You're in the same situation you are with iOS where old versions don't get all security vulnerabilities patched.

Android is a more modular system than iOS. Even if the core OS is out of date, many components are updated via Google Play.

A 10 year old iPhone would be the 5s. It has gotten a security update within the last year.

Not to be pedantic but the iPhone 8 came out in late 2017. Still a good lifespan!

To offset that: I'm still using an iPhone 7. I'm stuck on iOS 15, but that doesn't matter to me.

To which it is worth noting that Apple is still issuing security updates for iOS 15, the most recent was ~3 days ago.

That is why I left the google Pixel for iPhone. I liked my Pixel, but at the time, they only did 3 years of support and security updates, I understand they recently upped it to 4 or 5 years? Sure, my iPhone costs more, but if I use a phone for its total life span (when it stops getting security updates), the iPhone comes out cheaper if you divide the cost of the phone by the number of years it gets supported.

I'm using an iPhone 6S, I changed the battery after around three years. The only issue is it gets pretty hot sometimes, still not sure what it is but it's manageable.

I'm sympathetic to waterproofing concerns about easily-swappable batteries but this is definitely why Right-to-Repair is incredibly important

I understand why it wasn't feasible before with the rate of progress but now it should be possible. I want to see a LTS type of phone. Something like 10 years. Any other appliance, car, power tool etc. have much much longer useful lives.

iPhones are LTS devices. My 8+ is still going strong and fully supported after nearly 6 years - with one battery replacement.

Who replaced the battery?

The Apple Store.

Why is that relevant?

Because you have to ship it somewhere or drive to somewhere and pay for it to be replaced.

Does that sound like a "green" way to do things to you? The point is they make it difficult for you to replace parts, hoping you just get a new phone instead.

The sooner you realize Apple doesn't actually give a shit about saving the planet and they only put on this facade to sell you more product.... the better off you'll be.

I own Apple products but I'm not buying their bs about wanting to make the world a better place. Stop holding these companies up as some religious replacement.

> Because you have to ship it somewhere or drive to somewhere and pay for it to be replaced.

The battery needs shipping to you or you need to drive* somewhere to pay for it. What is the difference?

> Does that sound like a "green" way to do things to you?

It certainly doesn't sound any worse.

>The sooner you realize Apple doesn't act...

Blah, blah, blah... Cynicism is easy to the point of being lazy. You and those like you want to repair stuff on your own, and that is fine. Don't pretend that you want to do it because it's any greener. It's as much green washing as Apple is being accused of - same at the USB-C port enforcement. I don't believe for one minute that you give any more or less of a shit about the environment that Apple or its employees do.

> I own Apple products but I'm not buying their bs about wanting to make the world a better place. Stop holding these companies up as some religious replacement.

You made a point, it was challenged and countered, and you're doubling down on it. The sooner you're honest about your motivations, the sooner we can have a sensible discussion.

* Not everywhere is a car-centric as the US--some of us can walk or use public transport, which is greener still.

Did you give your monthly offering to the apple gods today? You sound like you're in a cult.... and it's for a stupid material product.

Pathetic.

I had the battery in my iPhone 6S replaced 4 times. Apple replaced it and it was no hassle. The first three replacements were free due to AppleCare and for the last one I think I paid $40 or $50. Just happened during a mall visit.

IT IS a hassle for many people. So, they just buy a new phone. This is why apple pushes you towards using them for something that could easily be made replaceable by the owner. The majority of people will not take their iPhone in and get the battery replaced and you know it.

So Apple is not the problem, people who will buy a new phone instead of a new battery are.

They're both to blame. Apple single handily changed the phone landscape to throw away type phones that you can't repair by yourself easily.

I think iPhones are the least “throw away” of the phones, aren’t they?

Apple has best-in-class device support and lifespan, no?

I still have an iPhone 5s that is intact as well as a 2013 MacBook Pro. They both are pretty outdated devices but fully operational. Apple is definitely not the company to be blamed for making "throw away" devices.

Name a brand thats better in providing software updates and security patches for their fleet of phones.

Repairability is a fair complaint - but the initial lifespan of $android is max 2 years. I consider it broken once it does not receive security updates. So $android phone is “broken” after 2 years.

Exactly this. I spent more on Android phones over time than I ever spent on iPhones. Between the better resale value and longer support, it just turns out to be cheaper to spend a few extra bucks at time of purchase.

> but the initial lifespan of $android is max 2 years. I consider it broken once it does not receive security updates.

If that's your definition of a lifespan, "max 2 years" is absolutely not true. Android has two types of support: new major releases and security patches.

An average Android usually supports new major Android releases for 2 years, but security patches usually go longer. Not as long as an iPhone, but more like 3-5 years.

iPhone 6s (released September 2015) - ~ 8 years and going

Nexus 5X & Nexus 6P (released September 2015) - last update January 2019 [1] ~ 2.25 years Pixel & Pixel XL (released October 2016) - 2019 (can't find a good reference) ~ 3 years Pixel 2 (released October 2017) - December 2020 [2] ~ 3.3 years

[1]: https://9to5google.com/2018/11/07/nexus-6p-and-5x-final-guar... [2]: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/10/05/pixel-2-and-2-xl-re...

My conclusion: an iPhone outlives (at least) 2+/3+ android phones

> Not as long as an iPhone, but more like 3-5 years.

Pixels starting from 6 -> 5 years.

Recent Samsungs -> 4 years.

Fairphone 2 (Dec 2015) -> lost support last month.

Things have improved since Nexus 5X, and even that one had a year longer support than your "max 2 years". I'm not saying it's better than an iPhone, I'm saying make a fair comparison.

Apple has a track record of supporting phones for half a decade.

Pixel 6 came out last year, the 5 year promise is still just a promise.

Samsung's 4 years isn't 4 years of major Android version updates. IIRC it was 2 years of Android updates + 2 years of security patches.

We'll see in 6 years whether the Nexus 6 can get the latest Android version. I'm pretty damn sure my iPhone 14 will still get updates in 2028.

Ok, nice to see this is improving for the big brand android phones.

A lot of people buy cheap $no-brand phones that probably don’t get (any) updates.

This isn't a comparison. I'm making the point that they're bullshitting you about being some big proponent of "saving the planet". They do nothing that doesn't increase the money in their pockets.

I have an iPhone. I'm just sick of their hypocrisy. This is nothing but marketing to get you to buy more product from them. "oh apple is so good to the planet, so security oriented, they really value your privacy"

I’m not sure how to tell you, but if I’m looking for a phone from a company that destroys the planet a bit less than the others, that cares about security a bit more than the others and that values my privacy a bit more, Apple offering such a phone is not some dark marketing ploy, but literally the supply to my demand. It’s the free market actually working.

It's not 'throw away', it's just (over a couple generations, admittedly) they are objectively better. People want them. The fact that they are being recycled mitigates the horrors of technology improving.

iphone 7 representin'

Maybe customers should reevaluate their shopping habit impact on the environment and stop chasing the next new thing?

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