FYI This guy isn't ugly, actually average looking 30yr old white guy, isn't short, is socially active. I honestly have no idea why this guy is still a virgin, im pretty sure he could find someone on a dating app if he got in shape.
I've noticed this a lot: whenever a non-ugly person notes that they're perpetually single, the first thing people say is "What? But you're so handsome/tall". This strongly implies that one's physical attributes are the biggest predictor of sexual success. However when people complain that their lack of physical attractiveness is keeping them perpetually single, they'll be assuaged that looks have very little to do with it, and it's probably a personality/circumstantial problem.
Not saying that you'd be saying it, but it's something I noticed: maybe a societal-scale sort of euphemistic tactic to make people feel better. The importance of physical attractiveness, with respect to common reasoning, seems to shift to one extreme or the other depending on whether the person one is talking to is ugly or attractive.
Once an unattractive person realizes this rhetorical shift everyone performs, how could they ever believe anyone who tries to make them feel better about their looks?
1: Attractive people will find dating and securing a relationship easier than unattractive people
2: Physically unattractive people can still be very successful in dating and securing relationships, because there are many other impactful factors besides physical looks
So you can say without lying or deception "it's surprising that [incredibly good looking person] is perpetually single, it should be easy to leverage their looks into a relationship" and also "don't give up just because you're ugly, there are far more important factors to finding a relationship than just your looks".
This seems to support the commonly, tacitly understood notion that looks are the most important factor, everything else is of relatively ancillary importance. I'm not implying that other factors aren't commonly regarded as also important, but they're never given the primacy of deterministic impact that it seems that physical appearance is.
- "working on yourself" is left unclearly defined
- the assumption that you have to "work on yourself" before you can get in front of other people (apologies if that wasn't what you were insinuating but I've been given this advice by others)
Addressing the first the most obvious way that society deems "working on yourself" if I had to guess is going to therapy. Well I have troubles going to therapy because evidently some part of my brain related to forming any sort of human relationship (romantic friendly business or therapeutic) is stunted. For me the interest you speak of and work ethic for dealing with humans over objects just fades. They can be as enthusiastic as possible and I can completely forget they exist after a week if they aren't physically in front of my face by then. And there are plenty of states of apathy in between. So therapy doesn't work out that well. I go back to those people who recommended therapy for advice. They say "well go to therapy again, wrong therapist." At that point Im willing to believe theyre telling me that because they have no idea how to deal with me and want me out of their sights asap so a professional can take the brunt of my miasma. And that is a legitimate tactic when dealing with severely depressed people, see "codependence", it is just the truth. At that point I cant bear to be around them any more
Addressing the second, I think that would contribute to more alone time for someone seeking self help, whereas experience by doing is better for learning. Though, by now Ive learned the hard way that dragging my clearance-shelf mind into someone elses good time feels like it would be selfish to them and unfulfilling for me, but thats me personally
So my new idea of working on myself is just trying to stay employed as a single living thing and hoping I can retire without any more mental defects forming. Sometimes I feel empty. Maybe I got the wrong idea.
The things people have been talking about in this thread. Get in shape. Consider improvements to other aspects of your appearance like hair, skincare, and clothing. Work on your personality by developing hobbies that get you around the kind of people you want to meet, make conscious effort to improve social skills.
> the assumption that you have to "work on yourself" before you can get in front of other people (apologies if that wasn't what you were insinuating but I've been given this advice by others)
Sometimes getting in front of other people is all that is needed. But if your current practices aren’t seeing the results you expect after the passage of time, then it’s worth considering whether an adjustment is needed.
> Addressing the first the most obvious way that society deems "working on yourself" if I had to guess is going to therapy. Well I have troubles going to therapy because evidently some part of my brain related to forming any sort of human relationship (romantic friendly business or therapeutic) is stunted.
Not necessarily but in many cases therapists can point you in the right direction! Also, if you’ve had a go with therapy a few times with no results, it’s possible that garden variety therapy practices aren’t for you and you need more specialized expertise. You might want to check out any university medical centers in your area that offer psychotherapy. The intake can take longer and there’s more bureaucracy but the quality can be a lot higher.
> Addressing the second, I think that would contribute to more alone time for someone seeking self help, whereas experience by doing is better for learning. Though, by now Ive learned the hard way that dragging my clearance-shelf mind into someone elses good time feels like it would be selfish to them and unfulfilling for me, but thats me personally
IDK where you live, but living on the West Coast I know exactly what you mean, the “positive vibes only” culture can be incredibly draining. I would say two things.
1. Not everywhere is like this, and if you can move, you might find the social environment in another place more to your liking. Midwesterners and New Yorkers famously love to complain.
2. There’s also an element where you have to learn to suppress negativity around new people. As your friendship becomes deeper - it doesn’t have to be all that deep - you can drop the mask and reveal how you really think. You will likely find that more people think like you than you might imagine, they’re just more practiced at masking.
I’ve noticed this pattern since I was an adolescent. In my opinion, the behavior is aimed at making the reassuring party feel better about the situation.
Individuals who recognize their unattractiveness and its negative consequences are more likely to engage in antisocial behavior, which is threatening to others. Hence, reassurances aimed at preventing such people from breaking with the group are part of the social script. Taboos on suicide serve a similar function — they deter antisocial individuals from depriving the group of resources (mainly labor, in the case of those who are secretly held to be nonviable for reproductive purposes). The gross inferiority of the reassured party can never be admitted, no matter how obvious, because doing so could justify behavior that the reassuring party finds undesirable.
This dynamic is the single biggest reason for the emergence and persistence of online “incel” communities. These communities provide a safe space for alienated individuals to refute the social script without facing ostracism from one another.
I can understand the purpose of self-help statements like "if it frightens you then do it." The point is for the consumer of the help to do things they wouldn't. But I'm tempted to say "I'm frightened of punching people out of the blue, vividly imagine myself doing so out in public every day and have to constantly repress my urge to do so." The author says "thats not what I meant." Then I'd say "then say what you mean." But the point has been lost in a mishmash of semantics. And in the end I'm still frightened of punching people
Im in the habit of peeling back the ulterior motives behind such tactics. Its more concerned with what the people are trying to get me to do if they're making a subjective statement more than the content of the statement. I call that kind of act 'positive gaslighting'. The term gaslighting is almost a universally negative connotation but nobody really talks about the flip side, when you have to look to faith instead of working with truth to feel better. Honestly Id let myself be stoned to death than accept such words uncritically just because it makes me "feel better". I have to twist them into a narrative that makes sense with my worldview
(The irony is that blackpilled incel culture is just another tribe that you can't cross with the wrong words ("maybe I have a chance") or youll get decapitated, I want to remain outside of any tribe for the rest of my life if it kills me)
Dating apps can be where people go shopping, but it can also just be a way to filter for people you wouldn't ordinarily encounter doing the things you do day to day. In that respect, they're great.
An additional anecdote though as an in-between of both of ours: my mother in the UK met a man from Canada in a chatroom over twenty years ago, divorced my father, and they're still married. Not to say that it has always been smooth sailing at times for them (he's got paranoid schizophrenia, she's physically disabled now), but they're happy, so meeting people via software evidently does work for some people.
I mean, look at us, we don't know each other, but we're having a conversation, so if that idea is extrapolated to a dating app, sure, I can buy into the idea that they can be effective for some people.
Still baffled that he is a virgin, especially at his age, maybe someone in a relationship can give him advice, he has a twitter
Personally, I plan on doing it soon, there's no harm in it.
Also note that HRT, and specifically testosterone supplementation may not address core issues. I was a candidate for test, but this would have allowed my adrenals to stay suppressed and ruined my balls.