After 30 years, a father is exonerated in 'Satanic panic' case
tpr.org
tpr.org
Two decades later, as part of an investigation, the kids (now adults) came out as saying that they were brainwashed, they were pressured into confessions of satanic rituals in the local cemetery, of blood sacrifices and live burials and so on.
The investigation concluded that it was ultimately a combination of a popular moral panic, a special spot-the-satanist training that the teachers received as part of their professional development, and a collusion between psychologists and orphanages trying to fill out their facilities with kids harvested from accused parents. An absolute horror show.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diavoli_della_Bassa_modenese (unfortunately no En version of the page)
I'm curious, as there is no English page, do you have any more information I can pursue regarding the 'spot-the-satanist training'? Curious what exactly that entailed and the signs they looked for.
By the way, here's one of the psychologists involved in the scandal getting jail time 20+ years later: https://www.ansa.it/english/news/politics/2021/11/11/psychia...
Just to clarify, since I misspoke, the training was not about spotting satanists, it was about spotting symptoms of satanic ritual abuse in children victimized by them.
[edit]
I also forgot about the Bragas who were child psychologists at the University of Miami who have been accused by defendants (and their team) of inducing false allegations that put at least 3 people in jail.
1: https://gsep.pepperdine.edu/about/our-people/faculty/louis-c...
It was never about saving the kids :(
It never is (see the chat control ideas of the EU Commission).
For the best. My blood is fucking boiling.
I can't even imagine what these families were put through, this is beyond horrible. This is the work of demons indeed!
Unfortunately, no. Just regular humans.
The police officer who brought this mental pest to Norway was eventually arrested, naked, hiding behind a bush in his neighbors garden - spying on a little girl.
If I remember correctly, one of the driving forces for this hysteria in the USA, another police officer, was eventually convicted for rape.
I think it was Hermann Hesse who wrote that "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45637040
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/norways_hidden_s...
People who have experienced trauma from the actions of people can hate other people who they think are doing the same sort of actions. I guess it could be argued that you hate the response you have to a person's actions, and thus hate that thing that is a part of you. But I don't buy or agree with this. It focuses too much on the person experiencing the emotion and not enough on the actions of others that prompt the emotion.
This sounds nice and pithy, but it's trivial to debunk. Beheading someone is not part of myself, but it most certainly disturbs me. And I certainly wouldn't be hating something in myself by hating someone who perpetrated such a grisly crime.
In New Zealand, we had a kindergarten teacher who was convinced of preforming satanic rituals in a medieval style torture chamber in the basement of the kindergarten, There was even a network of secret tunnels. The building didn't even have a basement. That fact alone should have been a large enough clue that four-year-old kids can be unreliable witnesses if mishandled.
His conviction wasn't overturned until last year, which was 3 years after he died. First time a conviction was posthumously quashed in NZ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Ellis_(childcare_worker)
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory
https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/the-pizzagate-gunm...
> Welch wandered the pizzeria, searching for a dungeon that didn’t exist. When he found a door he couldn’t open, he fired at the lock. But beyond it was just a computer closet. He eventually set down his guns, put his hands on his head and walked outside, where dozens of police officers were waiting for him.
It really makes me angry because this makes people hesitate to report real reports of child abuse.
I wonder what modern day mass hysteria/social contagion we will remember in this way. Whatever it is you can bet lots of people will pretend they never engaged in it.
- Salem witch trials
- Know Nothing-Party
- KKK
- McCarthyism
- Rock and roll
- Banned books
- Sex education
- Heavy metal
- Gay movement & HIV/AIDS
- Video games
- People who consume Fox News
- People who consume US local news
- Anti-immigrant hysteria
Roughly 1500 innocent individuals have been executed in the US. 100k's of innocent individuals languished slowly and likely died in US prisons.
Republicans. I don't like the new subtle false equivalence. They are traitors.
these two worldviews differ very significantly and are in a very deep conflict, and by definition the euro-postmodern view is a lot more comfortable in bureaucracy and the currently much bigger (Federal-) State, is much better at it, and effectively controls it at all levels
this renders Republicans into a reactionary party, especially as the growing trend within it abandons neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism
Democrats look a lot like the old Whig party which existed both sides of the Atlantic but was out of step with the prevailing culture; they also look a lot more like a modern British mainstream party than any major US party has looked before, which IMO it's not a good thing, but European politicians love it
And it's the same hucksters selling fear to the same religious reactionaries. New day, new apocalyptic scapegoat.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/Age-just...
2. You're kinda proving my point; the Daily Mail is one of the sensationalist tabloids that were flogging the Satanic Panic bullshit back in the day.
Show me the lies in the article instead of attacking the publisher. Bad faith argument.
Why bother loving your kid for who they are when you can just ask the docker to slice them up before they can consent? Or deny them access to Healthcare based on your own feelings because you really like your kids genitals...
/s
It just doesn't seem to be about facts at all.
The apparent fact that the people who are pushing for personhood of embryos and rage against people reading a book in drag seem perfectly fine with male genital mutilation really highlights that this isn't about the welfare of the children at all.
As the father of a young son: damn, people are stupid.
(Advertising works on me, too).
Children _can_ receive puberty blockers, which _by definition_ are 100% completely reversible. The process to start treatment is universally difficult and involves multiple years of therapy and concurrence of multiple medical providers over time.
Source: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/aug/10/ron-desant...
As to the real risks, time and again it has been shown that the comparative risks of a) receiving puberty blockers vs b) growing up a gender you do not feel you are, strongly points to puberty blockers being a significant net benefit. Those taking puberty blockers rarely regret it; whereas those growing up a gender they do not identify with mostly regret it are are significantly more prone to abuse, mental health issues and suicide.
The issue here is manipulation of children. If children were fed tons of harmful pain blockers, there would be a "panic", too.
It's because acetaminophen is extremely hepatotoxic at levels not very far above the recommended dosages.
> Hepatic injury and subsequent hepatic failure due to both intentional and non-intentional overdose of acetaminophen (APAP) has affected patients for decades, and [...] remains a global issue; in the United States, in particular, it accounts for more than 50% of overdose-related acute liver failure and approximately 20% of the liver transplant cases.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4913076/
I would assert that acetaminophen is far more likely to be dangerous to far more children than puberty blockers and yet I don't see any moral panic over children's Tylenol.
https://chiro.org/pediatrics/ABSTRACTS/Acetaminophen.shtml
Is that enough? And by the way this is a higher rate the abortion pill that was banned.
This is such an absurd statement. You don't "define" how the body works.
14 isn't a child anymore? Your left-leaning political fact checking source sucks. Here's some reading for you. Do some real research.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11377391/Age-just...
Or maybe people feel like they're just having abstract, hypothetical intellectual discussions. But when I read these threads, it just feels like signal after signal that I no longer fit in or have a place here.
I have considered emailing the admins to state my concerns, or creating an account here to add another voice to threads when things start heading in that direction - but ultimately it seems futile as transphobia seems to have ramped up everywhere recently. It's scary.
Of all the wonderful trans people I know in the real world, very few are getting the medical assistance they need. Those people are fortunate enough to pay for private care, and even then the level of care they are getting is barely acceptable. My other trans friends are approaching their 30s and still on waiting lists.
Many things presented as fact in this thread do not line up with my experiences of trans issues and the wider LGBTQ community. In my opinion many users on HN are truly insightful about tech and programming, but utterly heartless when it comes to social issues.
If you have concerns that are not resolved by people getting flagged (may take a while for them to reach critical mass of flags) or banned, do e-mail the admins. I'm sure they'll at least listen.
I live in the SF Bay area and only once overheard a sarcastic comment directed at my mask wearing. But every time I go out shopping in public and see people without masks I feel it. And that's completely discounting all of the articles I've read that favored removing masks and distancing, even from left-wing writers. The few people who are still mask-positive, or at least talk the talk, are nice, but seem less salient before the mask-negative people.
People don't give a shit, even though they know that behaving as normal means that literally hundreds of thousands of people will die each year from disease.
As a person who is not trans, but does have OCD, it's annoying how big a deal the powers that be make being "trans accepting". When at best they just say "tolerate those who continue to wear masks, but don't bother social distancing from them, or wearing your own mask". I think this annoyance (in people who see their own issues not cared about the same) sparks a backlash not necessarily against trans, but against the very large, disproportionately noticeable, social push for not just trans-tolerance, but trans-inclusion.
The main issue with "Trans" is that it covers way too many things these days. Everything from what used to be transvestitism to full-on post-op and hormone transsexualism, and including brand new things such as pronouns. And actions ranging from trans people who still otherwise behave entirely like their birth sex socially, to those who stealth everywhere they can in every way they can, to those who flaunt their transness in various ways. And that's without factoring in the third parties who support transness, and the various kinds of actions they take (such as militantly policing pronouns, or encouraging people to consider whether they're trans without letting the topic arise naturally - which is a definite problem for some people who are on the OCD spectrum [Trans-OCD] as well as people who are suggestible).
And it includes other people who are even more socially deviant (pedophilia, extreme body modification), trying to hitch their wagon to the trans issue, as trans hitched itself to LGB, which brings in the slippery slope arguments.
Basically there's a ton of stuff going on with respect to trans. Various people can be okay with almost all of it, but not with some of it. These people can say what they have a problem with and it can be perceived as blanket anti-trans or "transphobia", when it's not. Or those people can actually become blanket anti-trans because of the one thing they originally had a problem with.
P.S. I found your comment while going back through my thread list and felt the desire to respond.
And yes, there are a few paragraphs about transgender fear in horror.
If you can get your country to take it where it should be and not a step further more power to you.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideo...
Other parts of the list are also obnoxious and/or offensive but I didn't want to dissect it all.
Moderates leaving means no moderation and the jesusfreaks will feed back on each other as they become more and more extreme.
Even as their numbers dwindle the influence they have on society will grow because they act as a single bloc and are propelled by religious furor.
The satanic panic happened in the UK too.
The wikipedia article also seems to imply that the scare was predominantly USA-based.
> During the penalty phase of the trial, a prosecutor said that Willingham's tattoo of a skull and serpent fit the profile of a sociopath. Two medical experts confirmed the theory. A psychologist was asked to interpret Willingham's Iron Maiden poster. He said that a picture of a fist punching through a skull signified violence and death. He added that Willingham's Led Zeppelin poster of a fallen angel was "many times" an indicator of "cultive-type" activities.
The difference is that it is too late to exonerate Willingham since he was executed in 2004.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial
Played out in LA, CA. I remember following the news about it and thinking it was just insane. Frontline did a great series on it, too.
> “Whenever I had any doubts that something happened, I was told by the therapist that this was because I had multiple personalities, that my dad had programmed me this way,” Parker said the court record of his recantation.
That therapist should be stripped of their designation, and their entire client history be examined with a microscope for unprofessional conduct. I’m betting that this case is not the only skeleton in their closet.
Hundreds of thousands for eight years in jail, decades of angst, and a broken family ...
On the absurd side are:
- Satanic preschools
- Pizzagate
- most recently, drag queen demonization
On the underestimated side:
- unending Catholic priest incidents, most recently Baltimore. Non-Catholic pastors too
- Boy Scout leaders
- sports doctors
Funny coincidence that some of the most outspoken ANTI-LGBT people get caught doing the very things they claim to despise.
Protesting that one's cause is noble would be missing the point of the quote entirely. Everybody who has ever made lists thought they were doing it for a worthy cause.
A gay person isn't a hypocrite for being gay, a gay person condemning and harming other gay people is a hypocrite.
Again missing the point. It isn't a challenge to defend oneself, it's an invitation to reflect. Less talking, more thinking.
They are facing the consequences of purposefully breaking the social contract by harming LGBT people.
That's not what the list says.
After all, if they are being bullied because they are gay, all gay people should be listed on there.
> After all, if they are being bullied because they are gay, all gay people should be listed on there.
I don't know what you mean. That's not a gotcha.
So it’s not because they are gay, it’s their behaviour.
I am glad we finally agreed though I am sad we had to spend as many steps to reach this conclusion.
These lists aren't about homosexuality (or communism or adulterers or whatever), it's about attacking ideological and political opposition. The list makers never include "transgressions" of people aligned with them on their lists. If they can bully and intimidate their opponents about their sexuality they'll do that, if not they'll find something else. That's how these things work.
So I refer you back to Nietzsche.
There's no ideology involved, only breaking the social contract and hurting others.
I'd refer you to Scanlon.
Listing the actions of individuals has no inherent morality. The morality of the actions is decided by the broader society.
You keep painting them as victims when the list is only outlining their actions. If you have done no harm, you have nothing to fear.
As far as I am concerned, you are just another hypocrite, no different to the people in the list and this conversation is not worth it.
Again, read up on contractualism.
You can't remove all the context from an action and claim the general case and the specific case are identical. That's like saying "Punching is just swinging my arm; you can't arrest me for swinging my arm!"
I remember this time, and I also remember that it was the beginning of the unfettered internet, with things like porn and even CSAM content suddenly being just a few clicks away, and catching on like wildfire. I remember thinking: this is actually a normal reaction of normal women in aggregate when they feel that children are under threat.
There be likely other driving forces here too, but the explanation that lots of (other) people are suddenly gripped by moral panic for no specific reason isn't credible.