Comment by corin_ | Hacker News Reader

Comment by corin_ | Hacker News Reader

First, I agree with people pointing out that alcohol doesn't have to be for getting drunk. At the moment I have three near-empty boxes of beer (bottles), six part-drunk bottles of whisky, and a few empty wine bottles. None of that alcohol has been consumed by myself or anyone else to the point of being even buzzed, yet alone drunk.

However, I do enjoy getting drunk. I've never drunk so much I threw up, or fell over, or hit anyone, or... etc. But yes, when I'm out with friends or colleagues we will happily enjoy a night with much alcohol flowing - enough to be classed by the UK government as "booze drinking", at least.

I sometimes do or say something I feel embarassed about afterwards (most recent example was a conversation about poetry with a London taxi driver at ~5am), but nothing I've been ashamed of.

Sure, I can have fun without alcohol. Sometimes I do - certainly I've never had the thought that being drunk is a requirement for having fun. It just provides a different type of fun. Different things make you laugh, you have different conversations...

Obviously these things vary for different people, I've known people who I don't want to be around when they're drunk - but also plenty of people just like me.

edit: Just read the first paragraph of this comment and thought "I wrote that myself and even I think that sounds like an alcoholic in denial". When I'm out and drinking I'll drink a lot, when I'm at home I'll have a glass or two over an evening. If I tried to get drunk off the whisky I have at home it would be a really expensive night.

It sounds like you have a really high tolerance for alcohol. I've had a few friends like that, they could drink a whole case of beer. I myself drink 3 beers and I'm pretty well buzzed. Never could drink that kind if quantity. I do enjoy a great beer, though.

A few of my buds with the high tolerance seemed to get themselves into trouble eventually with booze, though. DUIs in particular, lots of legals bills. One turned raging alcoholic and is still in a shambles.

Not trying to say that will happen to you, I just notice of my friend for whom booze did become a problem - they share that trait of being able to drink a lot without seeking to ever get drunk.

I believe there are various medical reasons for alcohol to effect people differently (one of which is body weight, which presumably is a part of it for me), but also it's very influenced by experience. The more you drink, the better you can hold your drink.

I think that's probably the reason for your link between people with high tolerance and people for whom alcohol became a problem. It's not that having a high tolerance is problematic, it's just that anyone who gets drunk enough to have problems with it has probably drunk enough in the past to have built up a pretty good tolerance.

Personally I find my tolerance level varies greatly - I assume things like tiredness, what I've eaten, time between drinks and other stuff is in play, but I've never really clocked the exact causes. For example when I'm at Arsenal games I'll always have a couple of glasses of wine at half time, and usually feel a bit buzzed from them - drinking the same while in a restaurant, or at home, wouldn't do anything. Presumably there's a pattern of my behaviour before/during these games that makes it happen.

I really didn't intend to say drinking or not drinking was right/wrong for everybody... just trying to tell my story and what I've found worked well for me.

I would love to know what the beer/whisky/wine brought to your time with your friends, it it wasn't for getting drunk/buzzed? Honestly curious.

Do you only appreciate a nice steak frites because it makes you full?

You seem to think that it's impossible to genuinely appreciate the flavour of alcoholic drinks and to have interest in drinking the many kinds for the variety of interesting flavours.

Why should I avoid certain drinks simply because they have alcohol in them? Can you explain?

Not suggesting that. I think there are really people who appreciate the flavors of alcohols. My post was about partyers, not connoisseurs.

I liked your post and it didn't come across to me that you were trying to convince anyone else to do anything. Seemed more like you were just sharing your own personal experiences and realizations.

Regarding the first paragraph - it brings taste. Same reason we eat nice food rather than the cheapest most nutritional food we can find. It's not alcohol for the sake of alcohol, if I had a bottle of vodka at home I wouldn't bother drinking it. Come to think of it, I think I actually do have a bottle of vodka somewhere in a draw in my bedroom... it's there because I haven't ever wanted to get drunk at home since I was given it 9 months ago.

Whisky in particular I can't get enough of (in the hyperbolic way, not the "I literally drink as much as I can" way!) - I forgot to include, when looking around the room, that I have ~15 30ml bottle samples of various whiskies that I haven't tried, which I regularly add to and try. After trying them I might add it to my mental list of real bottles to buy in the future... often won't.

It sounds like it is really a flavor thing for you, and that sounds awesome. You've found something you really enjoy and are able to share that with others.

But the rest of my comment - yeah, I still enjoy the flavour when getting drunk, but even if I didn't care for the taste I'd still enjoy drinking on a night out.

edit: The only argument I would make against getting drunk, in my case, is that when doing it I'm obviously not taking the healthiest path. But I strongly suspect my food and nicotine habits are much bigger problems in the long-term.

You're aware that there's an entire profession based around the taste of wine, right? And that wine prices are based on their taste not their alcohol content? I don't understand how it's possible to be incredulous about people liking the taste of alcohol. I think most people like the taste of alcohol. Certainly haute cuisine is about taste. There's no section in Escoffier about getting shwasted.

I have nothing against this. That's why I said it was awesome they really appreciated the taste of alcohol.

They appreciate the taste of the various beverages, not the alcohol (although, to be clear, the alcohol does contribute to the various flavors). Very few people drink alcohol, rather they drink things that happen to contain alcohol.

You might be thinking that I'm being pedantic right now, but having a firm grasp on this concept is important if you wish to understand why people drink what they drink.

Consider how silly it would sound if we talked that way about baking soda.

"And that wine prices are based on their taste not their alcohol content?"

If wine prices were determined by taste then the most expensive wines in the world would be Oregon pinos, Rioja tempranillos, albarinos, etc. But in fact most of these wines are dirt cheap. The things that determine the price of wine are mostly the brand of the wine itself and the brand of the region it comes from. Taste plays only a very small role in pricing. And the alcohol content actually significantly effects how people perceive the taste, because when people are tasting a dozen plus wines in a sitting they tend to prefer the ones with higher alcohol content because they stand out more as they lose their taste perception, even if these wines wouldn't be that good on their own.

If you're getting intoxicated while wine tasting, you are doing it wrong.

Did I say anything about becoming intoxicated? Anosmia/ageusia have nothing to do with intoxication.

If the mere presence of alcohol improves the perceived taste, then it does tastes better. Only actual intoxication could properly be said to corrupt results, since ethanol is a legitimate source of flavor.

That's not correct. The alcohol makes you think the wine tastes better when you are comparing it with lots of other wines at the same time, because it makes it 'pop' more. But if you actually drink that wine on its own, the way one normally drinks wine, then it wouldn't necessarily be your favorite.

Except to me the taste is absolutely vile. I don't drink any alcohol whatsoever simply because it dislike the taste. Even a whiff is enough to turn me off.

I don't have any objections to others drinking (within safe limits), but really hate the notion (fortunately not widespread among my friends) that if you're not drinking alcohol in a social setting you're somehow weird or even spoiling everyone's fun.

A colleague and friend of mine who used to love drinking is unable to now for medical reasons, and while I've always felt sad that he can't do what he used to enjoy, I've never felt that his not drinking has been anything like a problem for anyone other than him.

That said, I can see that there is some logic for some people. It's very possible for drinkers and non-drinkers to enjoy each other's company while drinking and not drinking, but for some people, if they feel this way, there's no reason it shouldn't be like any other activity. I'm a big fan of sports, for example English football, I don't mind that plenty of my friends are completely indifferent, they don't mind that I love it. I'd never expect them to come and watch a game with me, or even watch on TV. So I wouldn't have a problem with people thinking the same thing about "getting drunk" instead of "watching football".

Similar views here. For me it's beer - I've just never, ever liked the taste of beer. I think I've have 3 beers in my entire life, generally as the result of awkwardly forced social situations where it was easier to have a few sips than to make a bigger issue out of it than I wanted to.

Wine? A glass now or then with a particular meal, it's OK. Spirits? Some vodka with OJ can give me a small buzz which, in some ways, can be relaxing for a while. These are the '1-2x a year' sorts of drinks, but never really for the taste of it.

But... beer. Of any sort. I've just never understood the fascination with it. It all tastes gross. It's probably saved me a small fortune compared to some of my friends over the years, and I'm sure I'm (a bit) healthier because of it, although I still eat junk food, so it's not all unicorns and rainbows on that score :)

I think I've have 3 beers in my entire life.... I've just never understood the fascination with it. It all tastes gross

That's a rather strong conclusion to draw from having tasted at most three different beers (and I wonder if they were all that different... situations where people typically feel pressured to drink aren't known for the high quality of the beer on hand).

I couldn't get used to the taste of beer for something like two years since I started drinking alcohol. At first I hated it, now I just tolerate it. I still don't really like it, but I don't have problem with drinking it in social situations anymore.

[quote]I still don't really like it, but I don't have problem with drinking it in social situations anymore.[/quote] I think the author wanted to express precisely that point you implies: in social situation people who doesn't want to drink is used to fell forced from others' thought (or from circumstances) to drink.

None will say that aloud, because everybody knows that it is some sort of social rule, like wearing robes (you should truly put those pants up, Mike), and it's embarrassing for both sides pointing out the anti-social move. Thinking that those who won't drink would be boring or spoil the party(<--classic excuses) to the good guys, who simply follow society rule like "ought to drink in meeting", is a really spread notion, in which even I found myself. p.s. a less idiot excuse imho is that, when you drink with others, there is a mutual and tacit agreement to "relax" social boundaries, to be more natural, to not feel constantly judged ("Come on! I was drunk! I really didn't meant that"<<classic). But when there is one who won't agree putting on this kind of "shelter" or "mask" (not to spoil social relaxation but because he can't sustain the shelter itself), everyone feels embarrassed because you are not sure that this kind of social outcast is going to respect or not the tacit agreement without the ritual drinks. I hope I've been comprehensible.

I figured this would come up.

I've exaggerated a bit - I've had sips of more than 3 beers in my life. I've had tastes of lagers in the UK, a couple German beers, and a few others over time - a swig here and there, etc. 3 was basically full (or near full). There's just nothing appealing at all with any of the types (closest I could probably do would be a cider, which isn't really a beer though, right?).

This feels like a no true scotsman issue. "Well, if you'd had good beer, you'd feel differently!". :) I've had tastes of beer where people said "this is the best stuff here". It's still ... ugh. Can't deal with the taste.

If my life depended on it, I probably could do it, but thankfully I've never been in that situation :)

I've exaggerated a bit - I've had sips of more than 3 beers in my life. I've had tastes of lagers in the UK, a couple German beers, and a few others over time - a swig here and there, etc. 3 was basically full (or near full). There's just nothing appealing at all with any of the types (closest I could probably do would be a cider, which isn't really a beer though, right?).

If that's your experience, I'm fine listing you as "doesn't like beer."

It probably isn't the alcohol, then. If it's the beer you find unreasonably offensive, it may be that you are a supertaster. I am one, and I've had the same experience you describe: enjoying wine and spirits, but unable to form any sort of friendship with beer.

I actually react most strongly to spinach -- once as a child, I gagged on a perfectly good spinach leaf and threw up in my napkin right in the middle of a restaurant on best behavior! But I also definitely have the sense that what I taste when I sample coffee and beer cannot possibly be what other people are tasting.

Wow. Never heard that term. I was always just a "picky eater" as a kid.

Spinach and some other veggies - I'm fine with almost everything raw. Can't stand it cooked. Yet people complain about that. WTF? I'm asking you to NOT do any food prep - no energy to cook/heat it up - there's no wasted effort, and it's good for you. I'd still get push back from family over the years as a "picky eater".

My brother got us a juicer, and I'm juicing up loads of carrots, spinach, celery, beans, greens (collard/turnip), etc. Yeah, that definitely doesn't taste awesome, but in some ways, because of the mix, it doesn't taste strongly of anyone type of food - they sort of cancel each other out a bit. It's not a great taste, but doable, and it's healthy.

Coffee - that took a while to be an acquired taste. Why do this but not beer? A) cheaper. B) caffeine kick is more useful to my daily life. I'm not a coffee addict - 2-3 per week is a lot - but generally cheaper to add on to a breakfast meal than a beer is with a dinner. I prefer flavored coffees/mochas/etc, but coffee with enough cream/sugar is workable.

Man, I wish I could take you to some beer bars so we could see if you really hate beer, or if you've just had bad ones. A friend of mine was positive that she hated beer; then I introduced her to gueuze and now it's gotten to the point that she's planning a trip to Belgium to drink more of it. By chance did all three of the ones you've tasted have Bud, Miller, or Coors anywhere in the name?

Nope. As i wrote above, I've actually had more than 3 when counting small samples/swigs over the years ("here, try some of this"). Had UK lagers and ales, ciders (closest to something I could actually have more of), a couple types of german beers, a couple of 'micro brew' things from breweries local to wherever I was living at the time, etc.

Just... ugh. Can't do it. And honestly, if it was a case of "just try XYZ a few more times"... I'm not sure if I want to get accustomed to something that's $6/ bottle, which would end up adding $12-$20 per meal I go out for. I'd rather be able to leave a large tip if I've enjoyed the meal than pay for expensive bottles of 'the good stuff'.

I most social situations, I'm driving anyway, so it's always easier to bow out and grab a ginger ale or something, if I'm heading to the car in an hour.

When I'm not driving someplace (hotel for a conference, etc), it's tastier to get a fuzzy navel or some other fruity drink with some alcohol in it :)

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