How you were able to overcome this situation emotionally and psychological?
Share your honest opinion
From about December, till just last month, recruiters basically disappeared. It was so strange to me, I thought I had been shadowbanned from LinkedIn. Even when I was 18/19 trying to get a job in the field with no degree and no “real” experience I was at least getting some low quality recruiter spam.
First couple months were nice and felt like the vacation I didn’t manage to take last year. Around 3-4 months in is when I started to worry. I’ve always had some concern about the future of the industry (and my place in it), but whenever I talked about it years ago it was dismissed and impossible because demand was just too insane. Things have since picked up a bit, and I at least am getting interviews lined up, but I’m just don’t care for most of the jobs and just feel like I’m going to be stuck permanently.
Right now I’m just kinda jaded and burnt out and unfortunately I think that’s bleeding into interviews. There are some other problems as well. I’ve admittedly stagnated a good bit, and have trouble caring or finding any enthusiasm in programming or technology anymore, though I’m not sure why, this has been an issue long before the layoff.
It probably is. I've experienced this myself. You just have to guard against it as best as you can.
>and have trouble caring or finding any enthusiasm in programming or technology anymore, though I’m not sure why, this has been an issue long before the layoff.
If you are used to a larger company, it's probably the bureaucracy and administration required at larger companies. Try smaller companies if that is the case. I've been working at startups and near startups for decades now and it's much more fulfilling. It's certainly more work, more accountability and more stress, but I feel more purpose doing that than being a cog in a larger company.
I had the same experience as you, and there was a pretty sharp uptick in interest from recruiters and hiring managers mid February.
I think that peoples experience will often depend on if they view it as an opportunity or curse and their level of financial stress/buffer.
I would recommend the following in no particular order:
1) Spend a fixed number of hours on the job search per day/week, and treat the rest of your time as you would a vacation.
2) Collect UI, its not much but helps.
3) Exercise & focus on healthy stress management.
4) Stay socially active in your industry.
The long story is savings + unemployment + frugal living:
At the time I was living in SF in a shared room for 600 a month and unemployment paid out around $1,800 a month. I've always been "bad" at spending money so most of my work income goes into savings. I looked at my at the time account and knew I could pay rent for 10+ years if I really needed to.
Things would be a little bit different now because I have a family and humongous mortgage, but if shit hit the fan, I could still pay it for several years out of savings before I couldn't make the payment. I don't really make any big purchases, so what I'm actually buying is security in times of emergency.
I get that savings are not a luxury that everyone has, but think most white collar workers can have a sizeable emergency fund if they structure their budget with that in mind.
If most people didn't buy a brand new car with $500-800 a month payment + insurance, they could afford buying a single rental property and immediately retire in a low cost of living country.
People love to buy useless crap though and live beyond their means.
Rent too high? Live with a roommate.
House-hack - buy a house, get 2 friends to live with you and pay you rent - your mortgage is paid off without you paying it every month. Save up for another year or two, rinse and repeat.
Life's not hard, but people fall into the trap of consumerism and working to live and get by paycheck-to-paycheck.
First generation immigrants save more on a minimum wage job than most people do with a high paying job. Simply because their expenses increase as their income increases, rather than saving and investing their income.
It felt like betrayal, it was hard to see it as a rational business decision and not take it personally - I shared a job title with 5 other employees, one of whom was hired less than a year ago - and I was the only one laid off.
It was a good reminder, ultimately, not to get complacent - I wasn’t worrying too much about money because I was making plenty of it. I was coasting when I didn’t have any business doing so. I should have been grinding.
It took me a couple months to overcome the emotional / psychological stuff - months wasted, when I should have been aggressively applying for every social service and hardship accommodation I could get my hands on, even ones I wasn’t sure I qualified for. I should have done that the first week.
I also should have immediately taken anything to start working again, while continuing to look for a more ideal position - instead of starting out with high standards and then slowly lowering them as time passed. I should have started trawling for freelance work that same week, instead of waiting months.
That’s most of the lesson I think - don’t get complacent, and when you do get laid off, hit the ground running. It takes a lot of work to get secure and comfortable again, and the longer you put it off the longer it’ll be til you’re square.
I have always been looking externally, but nothing seemed to ever pan out, so in addition to feeling lost, there is a component of feeling trapped as well.
My background is a little different where I am in the org psychology space, so this experience has been nice to see how I have been processing the information. So there is often time where journaling helps me process. Or reading posts like this and feeling not alone.
If anyone has any insight, or wants to connect, I would love that as well.
I've also noticed some signs of people being stressed. There is occasional snippy comments, and some people get a little territorial on claiming visible impact and projects. Overall just not much fun! What's weird is I still have interviews to do! 5 this year so far...
That's not really a surprise. Most "tech workers" laid offs were in non-technical positions as well (ie not engineers). HR, recruiting, DEI... The percentage of engineers impacted was minimal.
https://interviewing.io/blog/2022-layoffs-engineers-vs-other...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-24/tech-layo...
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3690309/about-those-te...
https://www.gartner.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-03-0...
https://techreport.com/news/3493451/microsoft-layoffs-ethics...
Feels like there is this big hiring machine that keeps churning regardless. No one is there to say, hey maybe we should hold off for a while or check their resume before we subject them to the interview gauntlet.
The one good thing about layoffs is that it grows your network. Eventually you and your old coworkers find new jobs at different companies and now you have new contacts there. This is how I got my first job after being laid off, my old co-worker got a new job and he reached out to me.
First time I was brought into a joint venture that was going into the ground as the 2 investors wanted to split. Board meeting 2 weeks into my job, and the decision was taken. They should have never hired my position. Second time was a clear cultural non-fit, I have very consensus oriented and the founder needed everything for yesterday.
I took the 2 packages I had and went into consulting, I love helping people solve their problems, found a new love for tech, that I had lost in a 15 years of management I had done. I picked up new skills from the teams I was working with.
Since then, I have joined partners, developed an IoT consulting business (with a healthy mix of blue-chip clients and startups) and we are about to launch a product in the Agtech space.
The layoffs were a shock initially, and I had a small burnout after the 2nd, but I love people, so I kept going to network with people I had enjoyed working with and I got a first contract 3 days a week.
In short:
- got fired,
- burned out,
- talked to my friends/network,
- got a small consulting job with an ex-coleague,
- learned to love tech again,
- now my business is growing because I surround myself with good people that I trust.
edit: formatting
The closer I get to being able to retire the more this scares me. I need these last 5-7 years to get to a point where I feel like I could retire, and to have that stolen from me when it’s so close…it would be devastating.
In terms of how it affected my psyche, I'd say it definitely had an impact. Losing a job can be a blow to your self-esteem and leave you feeling uncertain about your future. However, I try not to let it get me down for too long. I remind myself that layoffs are often beyond our control and that it's not a reflection of my worth as a person or a developer.
As for how it changed my commitment to potential future employers, I'd say it hasn't really changed much. I still approach new job opportunities with enthusiasm and a desire to do my best work. That being said, I do try to be more aware of warning signs that a company may be struggling financially or could be at risk for layoffs in the future.
In terms of overcoming the emotional and psychological impact of a layoff, I've found that talking to friends and colleagues can be helpful. It's good to have a support network that you can lean on during tough times. I also try to stay busy by working on side projects or volunteering my time to help others. It's important to keep your skills sharp and stay engaged with the tech community, even if you're not currently employed. Finally, I remind myself that a layoff is not the end of the world. It's an opportunity to explore new opportunities and grow as a person and a developer.
It is the difference between what I want to do, and what I have to do.
I guess the main rub is 99% of everything I have designed, built, patented, launched, tested and busted my butt for, is no longer in existence. But, on the other hand, the things I have done has gotten us to a point in technology where we are today; both good and bad.
The unknowable is how low the percentage needs to drop from 100% enjoyable before you realize you are slowly dying. I have a lot more respect for how tired my father was now, that's for sure.
100% agree with you on this.
Layoffs are the opposite of that. It's a symbol that the company is no longer growing.
The keywords here is: If you're talent enough, you can be your own boss.
There's no way for business to hold talents anymore due to broken stupid HR process and "angry managers/team leaders".
I feel no loyalty. Unfortunately I have no marketable skills so I must stay.
The first layoff was from a mid-sized company (150 employees). I didn't get much severance, but it wasn't a surprise since that company had competitive pressures they were not able to respond to. I had another job lined up and there was virtually no disruption.
The second time was from a large company (70,000+ employees). Severance was good and I found a job before it ran out in three or four months.
Both times resulted in good career moves for me. I was surprised at how long the job search took. Surround yourself with supportive people. Capitalism doesn't care about you. It's not a judgment on your humanity or ability as a developer.
The only thing your employer owes you what they are contractually obligated to owe you.
Since then I stopped caring about any of the usual bs employers use to try to make me feel special. A job is just that - a job. I work for pay and forget about it when I go home. I don't want to be friends with anyone at work. I don't want to do teambuilding or anything outside of work. I have a life (family and kids). I work as much remote as possible.
I look for new jobs all the time, as employers are just like banks. They don't care about you and will discard you if you stop being useful.
I live in a socialist country where I get benefits as unemployed and also pay for a private endurance against unemployment.
I had been mostly happy at job 1, where I stayed for 5 years, and only left because they were onsite-only and I was moving back home to be closer to family. It was a pleasant job with little stress and catered lunches. I gained 15 lbs, bringing me to just barely not underweight.
At job 2, I stayed for 3 years prior to the layoffs. I lost 15 lbs due to the stress and was underweight again. The place was toxic and I got given a bad performance review in early 2022 because I got put on a shitty project in 2021 and didn't have the soft skills to dodge out of it like many others did. I then spent all of 2022 booking it to get back into good performance graces (because I really wanted to keep vesting my equity grant, which was stock-denominated and had appreciated quite well). I accomplished this by the midyear mark (got a good check-in rating) and was hoping to get an "exceeds" designation at the next full perf review. Instead I (and several other peers) got laid off because my stock grant had appreciated TOO much and I was very overpaid. I was 1 month into my parental leave at the time of the layoff. And since then the stock price has dropped ~50% so fuck me, right? It's private equity so it's not like I was ever even being overpaid in actual USD-liquid stuff.
So I pulled some strings in my network and got hired at the same cash comp (and with equity too but :shrug: as to how much that'll be worth) pretty quickly and scheduled myself to start about a week after my parental leave would've ended anyway.
I was paid throughout my parental leave (since it was a protected leave) and got severance too, then started my new job a week later.
That was about 4 months ago. Getting laid off ended up being fairly profitable due to the ~0 gap in employment and the severance. I can't say I really had a great time though and it kind of ruined the holidays and made it hard to enjoy month 2 of my parental leave (in addition to all the other things that makes parental leave hard to "enjoy", anyway, like, yknow, the sleep deprivation and baby blues/depression etc).
I think overall I just feel numb. I like my new job well enough and it's nice that it's a lot closer to the work I want to do (my last job was more soft-skills-y and project/product manage-y and not enough coding for my taste, whereas my new job is very technical which is what I love). And while I enjoy the day-to-day work and don't feel burned out, I just don't give a fuck about it as a whole anymore. There's absolutely 0 emotional attachment. Maybe that's better than how attached I felt to my prior 2 jobs? I felt like an owner who cared. (But I still enforced good WLB - despite how stressful it was, I never let myself work more than ~30 mins late and I never started more than ~15 mins early).
But I do intend to do this for years (my new company is a good place, with a good reputation, and I'm college friends with many of the devs and some of management), and it's what I'm going to do with ~50% of my working hours. So I do want to care a little, you know?
But I don't.
(And I'm not depressed - I'm familiar with the screening due to post-partum depression and I don't have any of the symptoms, and I still look forward to things etc and don't feel "numb" to anything else in my life).
I'm hoping that as time goes on, I'll continue to finish emotionally processing the layoff and some of my defensive not-caring-about-work will recede a little bit. And I still love software. So, we'll see.
Focus on your relationships with your peers at work. Pay it forward with them. Give them generous credit. Support them, learn from them, and teach them. Build cool sh*t with them. Don’t score points in the dumb internal games.
You don’t have much control over anything else. If you get laid off, it will suck, but you’ll have a support network to help you out. If you’re not a sociopath, you’ll land on your feet.
First time I got north of 6 weeks warning, and it was pretty good (along with 6w severance)
Second time happened on a Friday afternoon at 4:40 - was pretty lousy: just a "your services are no longer required" after 5 minutes on the phone talking about how good a job I was doing.
Third time was a Monday morning after a late-Friday 1:1 with my manager who was talking about the company's financial issues (though ... somehow they managed to hire someone the week after for double what I was making ... so there's that) - but I got a month's severance
The first time got me out of HP
The third time switched me to my current field (analytics, away from datacenter management and automation)
If you're prepared for it (you do have at least a month's (preferably 3-6) worth of expenses in savings, right?), it can be a liberating, almost - dare I say - "fun" experience
When you're given warning (at least a couple weeks, if not more), it's basically your employer telling you: "go find a new job; we'll keep paying you for X period, but you can coast here"
When you're given no warning (like a call at 4:40 on a Friday afternoon) and no severance (as happened that second time), it can be downright infuriating/stress-inducing/terrifying (even with savings (though mine had recently taken a hit due to some other emergencies that had come up))
I know some folks who volunteered to be laid-off - they were open to leaving and/or wanted an excuse to leave, and wanted to help others in the process
My "commitment" to my current (and any future) employer is entirely based on their continuing to pay me
I thought I'd be one of those lifers when I graduated college and got a decent job with a youngish, exciting company
Then they got bought
And I was part of the acquirer's WFR (work force reduction) 18 mos later
Since then, I've had a different outlook: I have a contractual relationship with my employer - I do work, they pay me. I'd like to be where I am for a while (and that's been true almost every place I've worked since I was a teenager) ... but I'm no more emotionally-tied to any given employer than is appropriate for the job at hand
Companies come
And companies go
You're a fit, and then you're not (and you might be again - I've seen that happen several times with different companies, too)
The best career advice I know to give is this: do your absolute best for your employer so long as they're doing their best for you. As soon as you cannot, or they will not, find somewhere else to be
...and never be the one to burn the bridge (but carry a can of gasoline and a match in case you must) - you never know when the other party's soaked it in gasoline, wrapped the support in dynamite, and is carrying a lit flare across the top