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Comment by roenxi | Hacker News Reader

Australia is also undergoing something of an energy crisis where our quality of life is at risk. I would not recommend our grid management policies to anyone. SA, famous for installing the Big Battery, is leading the charge with retail prices at ~35c/kWh [0].

These are policies that could very well mean that we have less energy available for use; mainly for ideological reasons. Someone is going to bear the brunt of that. It is lucky we can outsource our manufacturing to other South East Asian countries; but the trends we're seeing are terrible for Australia.

[0] https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/electricity-costs...

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> SA, famous for installing the Big Battery, is leading the charge with retail prices at ~35c/kWh

Yes, SA's electricity prices are high. But they've always had the highest price in Australia because they have no coal or gas. What's pertinent here is SA's electricity prices are dropping, whereas in every other state electricity prices are going up.

Prices going up is sort of inevitable when you are replacing your generation. We are currently coasting along on 30 year of paid for coal plants that are reaching EOL. Someone has to pay for whatever replaces them. The mechanism was always going to be the old plants drop off, the price then goes up, then it becomes attractive for new generation to enter the market.

The frightening bit is it took SA about 17 years to go from 1% renewable to their current 80%, and only now are prices starting to drop. The rest of Australia has to go through the same transition, in less time.

We have exactly the same policies in Europe. In fact it was the directing line explained by Klaus Schwab, the West should consume less energy and let the rest of the world prosper. The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries.

If I were China, I would fund the hell of decarbonation and anti-nuclear groups.

> The danger is, when you have less energy, your industries move to countries where they can consume/emit, and you become a vassal state of those countries.

"Just" add carbon tariffs, which is what the eu was planning to do on steel, for example.

"Planning to do" sounds like it won't happen. https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/green-taxation-0/carbo... gives October 2023 as a start date.

thanks, I only used the past because I remember this was in the works but did not follow the development. Glad to know it is in force already.

> ...and you become a vassal state of those countries.

As an interesting aside, I would like to see Australia opening negotiations with India in case the US pulls back from the Pacific. If it turns out the US can't afford to fight China and Russia at the same time, I think signing up with India is probably the most workable path. Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state.

> Either as some sort of inferior ally or maybe trying to sign up as a full Indian state

This overstates India's power projection and understates Australia's.

Instead - Japan, Australia, and India have been workng on Trilateral Defense and Economic relations since the mid-2010s, with this being formalized with the Quad (which offically isn't a defense agreement yet).

SK and VN have also shown interest in joining the Quad, and honestly, it makes more sense in the Asia context.

On the economic and energy policy side, ik India+Japan have put their renewable eggs in the Blue and Brown Hydrogen strategy - use Australian NatGas and Coal to create Hydrogen cells. This also allows both India and Japan to minimize any dependencies on Chinese battery tech and supply chains and integrate Australia's economy closer with India+Japan [0][1][2][3], and Australian mining companies are being selected by India to help with the Lithium deposits in Jammu [4]

[0] - https://www.csis.org/analysis/japans-hydrogen-industrial-str...

[1] - https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-hydrogen

[2] - https://www.pv-magazine-india.com/2021/12/11/the-long-read-r...

[3] - https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade-and-investment/in...

[4] - https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/Commodities/India-s...

Hopefully it will mean more local solar off grid setups, more heat pumps and better thermal insulation. People need to start being more efficient with the energy they use. The increase in cost will help with that in some cases.

Should the message to poor people, who are getting destroyed with very high energy costs, be "just spend $10,000 on solar"?

Environmentalists are pretty out of touch when they throw poor people under the bus and tell them to just buy a $50,000 entry-level Tesla or a $10,000 entry-level solar system.

They'll simply vote for populism if they are bled further, and price rises are a certainty with expensive renewable 'solutions'. Our grid can't even support a large expansion of solar, nor a large expansion of EVs. Costs will grow exponentially if the grid is gold-plated to handle EVs and further solar, along with expensive renewables.

You make good points. I wish govts in wealthy countries would offer more zero rate loans or grants to low income people to improve the energy efficiency of their homes. It's a win-win: That means low income people lower their CO2 footprint and their incomes rise. For low income people, usually that gets spent right back into the economy, further boosting GDP.

If you look closely at the heat pump rebates in the UK, it is roughly 50% the upfront cost for average installations. That leaves an upfront payment of 5,000 GBP or more. There is just no way that middle class and below will have that money in savings. A better idea: Provide zero interest loans. Whatever is saved on energy bills can be used to pay down the loan. After 10-20 years, it should payoff the entire loan with a huge benefit for everyone.

Resources can't be magicked into existence, they have to come from somewhere. They'll probably be the people who are being forced to buy new heat pumps. A 0% interest loan is going to act similarly to just forcing them to buy the heat pump.

How long will the heat pump last? First result says 25 years. [1]

https://www.evergreenenergy.co.uk/heat-pump-guides/how-long-....

Especially in Australia, where we are also undergoing a housing crisis. Australia's poorest don't own their homes, and renters don't have a say on insulation or solar installation.

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