I don't think you browse like I do
blog.microco.sm
blog.microco.sm
Those bastards... and they force you to sign in for their email and g+ and picasa and.. oh, wait.
Maybe I'll sound like a wierdo, but you can always opt out of using google at all and block them with ghostery or hosts. Problem solved. Let's be honest with ourselves and admit that data is the currency we pay for 'free' online services, and if we don't like the service or the 'price', we can just stop using it.
It's funny OP uses gmail and g+ but is worried about profiling for ad personalization. Btw there is google analytics on his blog.
>Those bastards... and they force you to sign in for their email and g+ and picasa and.. oh, wait.
I haven't said that making money was bad, it's business, and that's the risk to know where is the interest. Sure you signed, but silly me, I wasn't thinking about all this when I first sign-up for Gmail, and sure as well I could resign, but meanwhile they collected data, probably much more that I can think of.
> Let's be honest with ourselves and admit that data is the currency we pay for 'free' online services, and if we don't like the service or the 'price', we can just stop using it.
You're right, I was answering about that to the person who said "oh, it's not that bad, the price to pay it's some ads that suit your profile", but the 'price' is indeed more than that.
> Btw there is google analytics on his blog.
It doesn't surprise me, his post sounds to me more like an easy "don't be evil" troll.
yeah. He even made private browsing sound hackish with about:config while this option is a checkbox in preferences
This is FUD, plain and simple. While I don't advocate sticking one's head in the sand and refusing to predict or even speculate, it's easy to do too much predicting and speculating (and very prone to bias), it's easy to spread paranoia, and it's no basis for living a life and especially it's no way to decide moral or criminal issues. I could go on a murderous rampage tomorrow (perhaps not physically possible as determined by the laws of physics making up my brain but "possible" in the looser sense of it being a member of the state-space of world-configurations). Why don't people I know think this is likely? Largely due to trust that I've built up. Someone once asked me what they could do to gain my trust back when they broke it, I said that it's largely a matter of not doing certain things for a long enough period of time.
And so the problem is heavily dependent on what Google, Facebook, et al. end up actually doing with the data. What they could or might do has little relevance, what they're likely to do has significant relevance but still not as much as what they actually do. Thus far, they've been awesome about either not doing evil things with it or at least not letting me know about their evildoings. Their trust is not yet broken with me, unlike with some other companies I can think of (and correspondingly don't deal with at all).
Therefore I continue to use their products and let them collect and infer as they please. I don't exactly make this easy for them either since I too have "unusual" browsing habits in the form of NoScript, AdBlock, multiple browsers, shared, dynamic IPs and occasionally Tor. I didn't even join Facebook until a couple months ago on a "Let's see who friends me" curiosity (so I don't friend anyone myself). I'm sure there are plenty of Evercookies on my system I'm unaware of though and my full Firefox UserAgent is pretty unique. So they likely have a decent profile of me that they just don't reveal in a straightforward manner. They could also form a good picture from my comments here and elsewhere. (I don't think they have much ad preference data on me except perhaps that I hate ads.)
Though that brings me again to the issue that it can be worth speculating over what is likely to happen that will cause the trust to be broken and if I should be avoiding certain classes of actions that typically lead to harsh repercussions later. For example, suppose you have data showing it's quite likely that lending large sums of money to friends leads to the destruction of the friendship sometime later. Maybe your friendship will be different, but if that outcome is quite likely, you'd probably be better off not taking the risk and in this case acting on facts apart from what the other person has actually done is useful.
Even if these companies break their trust with me in the future, the most likely ways it will be broken do not seem to have incredibly unfortunate outcomes for me. (I can of course think of other quite nasty outcomes as well as anyone.) Similar to how, for example, a friend stealing something petty from you doesn't often cause great financial loss or inconvenience but the trust is shattered nevertheless. Or there may even be actions taken that I never signed up for or wanted and probably would have said "This will violate my trust if they do this" had 'this' been told to me before they did it, yet those actions actually end up being very useful to me and so it doesn't break my trust. I think this is actually how a lot of technological progress has been for a lot of people. They're taken on the ride from the status quo whether they like it or not, but in the aftermath they often like the new place better.
In terms of friendship etc. the gains are huge, but what about google?
Relevant ads? I have never, ever, in my life clicked on a google ad on purpose (probably a few by mistake (thus I immediately left the page)). And that despite that they are "relevant", so... What can I gain from letting google collect all that information about me?
And honestly I believe you get much better ads by targeting a site rather than a person. The best ads and the only ads I've ever positively responded to are those from a local tech site (the same ads but on a food site would probably not interest me as much).
The paranoia that some company might understand what i want and try to provide it for me seems absurd. why is this such a bad thing?
No one has a real, practical example of this. If someone can describe a business model that will use this type of data about people's interests to do something bad to them and make lots of money, then this will become a theoretical problem. Even that hasn't happened yet.
There's also all kinds of "don't track me" options available from Google/Microsoft/etc. as well as incognito mode in most browsers. It's time for people to find something else to worry about.
The point being, it is really, REALLY, hard for someone to be invisible while browsing the modern internet. There are very few things you can do, but there are some things.
1. Install adblock 2. browse incognito 3. browse through a proxy (creates noise) and, the most important 4. use a plugin that randomizes queries to its components.
For #4, I don't know of any out there that do this effectively so I wrote my own.
The big take away from the article is that "nothing is stored locally"...well, most companies haven't been tracking that way for a long, long time.
However, the point of the article isn't "do not track", it's "consume without personalisation".
Agreed. If anyone is interested in a bit of (slightly terrifying) evidence, take a look at evercookie: http://samy.pl/evercookie/
I wonder: Are you afraid Google is sitting at home drooling over the fact that you bought your shoes from JcPenny?
You’re not a name, you’re not a face, you’re a knode. a cookie. literally, a number in trillions of records.
Secondly, you sit on the web writing openly about privacy issues, while overtly displaying your information on those "Identity tracking" services you use, like Facebook, which If you spent the same amount of time you spend writing about how Google is out to get you, perhaps would understand that while you're browsing incognito, Google is having a frenzy with your gmail content, building a profile on you that you may never see.
At the end of the day, someone is always going to be collecting information on you, and your information will be again, one dot tied to your one number- among trillions of other records. There will always be internet ads.
To wrap this up, my point is that if you really don’t wan’t to be tracked, then cancel your credit card, pay everything in cash, disable your GPS, avoid connecting via Wi-Fi, forget doing ‘good deeds’ like filling out surveys, or giving your name and number to a blood drive. Oh and completely disconnect your router.
I'm sure Google doesn't consciously care, but the fact that they track it it can seriously screw you if in the wrong hands. Further, at risk of building a strawman, it sounds a bit to similar to "what do you have to hide?" which is wrong on many many levels.
Given plenty of data it would be easy to cherry pick information useful enough to cast some serious suspicion of a crime. People have been convicted on circumstantial evidence alone. Is it really the lay person's responsibility to worry about this?
A silly example: "Where were you at 9:35pm the 3rd of June, 2011?" ... "I was having dinner and drinks with friends" ... "Really? According to documents obtained by the prosecution you bought shoes that night online at 9:29pm from JCPenney" ... "Oh, I guess I left earlier than I thought" ... "Court, clearly the defendant is lying about his whereabouts".
/paranoia
@Katelyn, I think you misunderstand the purpose.
It’s not a paranoia thing to prevent companies recording information, instead it’s a preference for how I like to consume the web. The companies are free to record whatever they wish, they do so by my user of their service. But I’m free to choose how my client consumes their service.
I just prefer web sites that aren’t updating state based on me just reading things.
I like to see opposing sides of the argument, so don’t like the idea of being bubbled by my own preferences.
I feel a little freaked out when one cycling site I go on has adverts for the tyres I looked at 2 weeks ago on an entirely unconnected web site.
Personalisation can get it wrong. In the same way that Amazon recommendations become tainted every December when you do the Christmas shop.
And personalisation can be extremely upsetting, such as a family member who still receives new born baby information months after a miscarriage.
It just comes back to how I use the web.
I enjoy it more when it’s made up of many disconnected things giving a consistent experience to the user... me.
>I just prefer web sites that aren’t updating state based on me just reading things.
That seems odd. What do you care? Do you get frustrated if they incremented a counter to see how many people are currently on their site?
>I like to see opposing sides of the argument, so don’t like the idea of being bubbled by my own preferences.
That's shortsighted of you. The algorithm can detect that you like this and will show you a healthy does of opposing arguments.
>I feel a little freaked out when one cycling site I go on has adverts for the tyres I looked at 2 weeks ago on an entirely unconnected web site.
So you don't like to see relevant ads.
>Personalisation can get it wrong. In the same way that Amazon recommendations become tainted every December when you do the Christmas shop.
Sure, it can get it wrong, that's why it isn't as prevalent as you make it seem to be. Also, Amazon does their recommendations based on the latest things you shopped for. So when you start browsing other stuff, they'll show you related content.
>And personalisation can be extremely upsetting, such as a family member who still receives new born baby information months after a miscarriage.
Any one can get that wrong (and this isn't an extreme case). Their friend could congratulate them on the baby.
>It just comes back to how I use the web.
Like old media that isn't dynamic.
>I enjoy it more when it’s made up of many disconnected things giving a consistent experience to the user... me.
That doesn't make sense. It seems you don't like the Internet.
You make some good points on how they could improve these things, but not on them not being used.
I din't realize inaccurate personalization could be so upsetting. I typically take everything I read or see with a grain of salt. The Internet, afterall, is made by bozos like you and me ;)
I think it strikes a good balance between blocking everything (a la NoScript) and total openness.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/requestpolicy...
This seems to be a really popular misconception (presumably the name), but NoScript works pretty much as you describe, too.
You do not need a plugin to turn "everything" off, the browsers all ship with that capability and have for over 15 years.
I sometimes dream of a browser that would just fetch the page content and no extra other resources, showing it like Instapaper. The reality is more complex: images, css, CDN's, dynamic content, ...
RequestPolicy realizes the most important part of that dream: not telling Google, Facebook and a host of obscure tracking companies about every website I visit.
Incidentally, I also have about 50 separate email accounts that I use to log into various services. This helped me greatly when my Stratfor and my ps3 accounts were compromised, I didn't have to worry that a particularly important email address was at risk, so I just ditched them.
"Ghostery allows you to detect trackers on the sites you visit, learn more about the companies behind them, and control their visibility into your online behavior."
Works in most browsers.
I also use the Ghostery plugin which blocks a bunch of ad networks so they won't place cookies at all, but even if they do, they'll be reset when I close the browser due to the cookie policy.
1. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cookie-monste...
It works really well, and I don't have to go through the hassle of using two browsers. Additionally not accepting 3rd party cookies and using http://someonewhocares.org/hosts/ for ads. Not quite as secure as OP, but mostly does the job.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/gieohaicffldbmiilo...
It has nothing to do with what will happen to his browsing habit information or with dislike of being tracked.
"Preserve Favorites website data" under Delete Browsing History.
With that I can delete all cookies after a session but my logins stay active. And I don't need an extension for it. Every browser should support that. And the OS integration of IE9 on windows 7 is superior to the competition.
The "risk" to the average person from those systems was very low. (Ignoring, for a moment, the jobs lost to industrial espionage.)
But we know that gathering huge data-sets is important to many companies. Sometimes those companies are lawful (Google or Facebook) but sometimes they are unlawful (Russian criminal gangs). And even if they're lawful companies they may be using the data in bad ways, or not keeping the data secure.
It is amazing to see what people give up in return for "free" smileys or animated cursors or a shitty facebook game.
I don't browse incognito and I'm always logged in to google.
What I disliked were:
* Websites automatically changing state based on a cookie (forums that reset what it believes you've read)
* To be on site B and have what I viewed on site A appear (adverts over-personalising kept creeping me out thinking there was a relationship between disconnected sites)
* My searches being personalised (in the same way that Amazon recommended gets skewed by Christmas shopping, so my searches get skewed when my girl says "Can you just look this up for me", I also want to see other opinions so don't want opposing views filtered out)
But I didn't dislike those things enough to do anything about them. They're just small papercuts.
This browsing style evolved from using incognito and private browsing to assist web development, I continue to use it because it prevents all of the papercuts above.
Most likely every login is taxing him by 10 seconds or more (not split second) + interrupts his train of thought.
He gains almost nothing in return.
I know a lot of things that could cause this, even tough I tried a few things it's hard to figure out why Google isn't profiling me.
Is it maybe the DNT header, any of the disabled Javascript or the EasyPricacy list of APB? Maybe Spybot blocks something. Is there a way to opt-out for this? Maybe I never opted in? Anyone got an idea?
.bashrc:
alias cookies="/usr/bin/chromium --user-data-dir=$HOME/.chromium/cookies"
alias nocookies="/usr/bin/chromium --user-data-dir=$HOME/.chromium/nocookies --incognito"
alias chromium='echo "cookies or nocookies?"'1) Chrome incognito windows to test what people see before they sign into a service.
2) If I like the service, I would switch over to a normal Chrome window to see what a "typical" person would see.
3) If I want another identity I open another browser.
Besides all proxies, adblocks and incognito modes the world is still scary out there. No matter how hard I try, I always get a "your configuration is unique" message.