Even the Densest Metal Doesn't Exceed USPS Shipping Weight Limit (2022) | Hacker News Reader

Even the Densest Metal Doesn't Exceed USPS Shipping Weight Limit (2022)

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57 pointsthunderbong32 comments

There's a fun "street science" video where a small USPS Flat Rate mailer is filled with a solid block of tungsten, challenging passers-by to pick it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YIDkr33sjo

I have another thing to add to the list, "If I became a millionaire."

A complete set of tungsten dumbbells.

This is funny, with that size of fully filled with tungsten the small flat rate box must be 40-45lbs. That’s massive for something of that size and lack of carryability. The same size as the large weights for barbells at the gym.

At 0:14 someone says "that thing is like 200 pounds", and the response 5 seconds later is "48". Your guess wasn't far off.

I assume the original challenge was one-handed, which makes that first lift even more impressive. There's nowhere to grab it or get leverage!

Thanks for the clarity! I didn’t see the actual weight in the description so thought I’d make an educated guess.

The USPS claims to deliver large heavy packages but doesn't. I just found a note in my mailbox saying "too heavy to lift, pick it up at the loading dock". Not helpful when you're disabled and don't drive. The box is supposed to only be 40 lbs but it is large.

We had that happen too with things that for whatever reason Amazon decides to ship via USPS.

USPS will accept the package, and bill the sender for delivery to the end point, but then just decide "nah, you come get it" once it gets to their local facility.

Yep, it's basically fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government. Not that that excuses Amazon. If anyone should know which carriers to use to reliably ship packages it should be them.

it's basically fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government

Do you think that might be a little hyperbolic when talking about picking something up from the local post office?

At an individual level, yes. As a likely discussion that happened in a board room at some point in time, no not hyperbole.

For me as a disabled person it's the difference between being able to get my package or not and then maybe getting refunded or not. For the majority of people it may be more of an inconvenience but they are still losing time and effort on something that they actually paid to have done.

I'm no lawyer but I think that when you advertise that you are going to do something and then try to foist that responsibility off on the consumer incurring costs for them and savings for you are committing fraud as it is defined by law.

You paid for delivery to your door.

You have no contract with USPS, you have one with the seller. If the seller choses to use USPS because it's cheaper that's on them.

You can get your money back.

That said, it shouldn't happen in the first place.

For me as a disabled person it's the difference between being able to get my package or not and then maybe getting refunded or not.

This is an explanation of it being inconvenient to you, but not an explanation of "fraud against the consumer being perpetrated by an agency of the US government".

I'm no lawyer but I think that when you advertise that you are going to do something

Is there a guarantee in writing that they will deliver it to your door?

The USPS appears to be misrepresenting its ability to deliver large and/or heavy packages. It does so in writing on its various websites where the weights and sizes of packages it accepts are published. The fact that others have experienced this suggests that it is not a one-off issue but that there is likely an element of knowledge and intentionality on the part of the USPS administration. What then is missing from the definition of fraud ?

As for

> Is there a guarantee in writing that they will deliver it to your door?

I'm not sure, but I believe that is the general understanding most people have of the nature of the service being offered. If the USPS and/or Amazon were clear that by deliver they mean send a package to somewhere within a few miles of where you live then consumers would be able to take that into account when deciding which vendors to frequent (and many who are able would probably opt for their local Home Depot over Amazon). Moreover it would open the marketplace for competitors to offer higher quality delivery services on fair and clear terms.

but I believe that is the general understanding most people have of the nature of the service being offered

Unfortunately I think after the first time it doesn't make it to your door, everyone's general understanding calibrates to reality.

Moreover it would open the marketplace for competitors to offer higher quality delivery services on fair and clear terms.

Like fedex, ups and dhl ?

Well a year ago I ordered the exact same item and it was delivered by UPS directly to my door with no issues whatsoever. One of the big issues is unpredictability. Who want's to buy online if actually getting your purchase delivered competently is a complete crap shoot ?

> Like fedex, ups and dhl ?

Yes, but how many online retailers allow the buyer to choose from multiple delivery options ? Amazon certainly doesn't (except maybe for a very few large and very expensive items).

If they were paid to do a job and didn't do the job, how is that not fraud?

I called my congresswoman, Jackie Speier, about this and she started an investigation of my local post office distribution center. I ended up getting interviewed by some postal service investigator, several supervisors were fired (for unrelated things that came out during the investigation), and I got all my packages.

That's great but it's unfortunate that all of that effort seems only to have improved things at one post office. Given the number of upvotes my comment has gotten this must be a fairly widespread problem.

This is so similar to what happens in Brazil with online retailers when they decide to ship something through the Brazilian Postal Company (Correios).

For me it's a gamble to order anything online because I live in a suburb that doesn't get postal service, and the parcel gets redirected to a neighbouring town instead of my own city's office. All private shipping companies deliver to my door, though.

I’ve had good experiences with this and my local USPS. They usually send a dedicated driver in a van rather than the truck. The only failure here was a lightweight toolbox shipped from Indiana. Meanwhile I’ve had all sorts of AliExpress sourced machines sent through the mail and delivered to my doorstep.

Here's the other HN thread from last year,

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31116024 ("It is physically impossible to exceed the weight limit for a Small Flat Rate Box", 244 comments)

I once got to visit a jewelry manufacturing site where to get in and out you had to go through an MRI to ensure you didn't pick any gold or platinum dust on the tour. There were pallets of gold lying on the floor worth about 200 million. We got a chance to try to pick up a bar of gold about the size of a large loaf of bread and our tour guide said, "if you can pick that up and walk it to the front door, we'll let you have it". Turns out it weighed about 200 lbs and I could not get enough of grip to move it let alone pick it up. Fun visit.

That's one way to enforce the No surprise black holes in a box rule.

No explanation as to why USPS picked this particular weight limit?

Possibly it's the calculated limit of some type of package-handling machinery. Maybe it's more interesting, like the original planned limit was 7kg and somebody in the editorial chain mistakenly thought the conversion rate was 10lbs/kg.

Looks like that’s the max weight for any package.

The large flat rate box has the same max weight, I think. Also, other packages are technically charged by weight but with a floor based on size of the package called "dimensional weight."

Over ~70 lbs I think you need to pay a premium or use a different service.

I believe it is connected to the requirement that mail carriers regularly lift things of 70 pounds maximum weight.

A parcel heavier would therefore be a two-person lift and not conducive to the lone mail carrier model generally used for USPS last mile.

There may also be a law somewhere that prevents the USPS from handling freight which ends up being defined as “box more than 70 lbs” or something.

The 70 pound limit is for all USPS packages. It would be possible to exceed that limit for the medium or large flat rate box, or a custom box.

The weight limit has been raised and lowered over time. It was first 70 pounds in 1913 for nearby addresses and 70 pounds anywhere domestic in 1931. It was lowered in 1952, but has been 70 pounds since 1983. Source: https://about.usps.com/who/profile/history/universal-service...

That doesn’t exactly answer why. Based on that page, the answer is the same as for most things like this: a complex mix of government, commercial and logistical factors decided by committee. There doesn’t appear to be a “fun fact” answer like “most postal workers after WW2 were infantry veterans and the limit was set to be the same as a crate of ammunition”.

Correction: the first time it was 70 pounds for nearby was 1918.

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