I was bullied by a customer-focused, highest-market-value company | Hacker News Reader

I was bullied by a customer-focused, highest-market-value company

telegra.ph

59 pointsberrywoo25 comments

Apple's inability to deliver a customer experience in other markets like they do in the US goes a long way to explain their US-vs-RoW market share, and Apple-vs-Everyone arguments online. Stories of Apple's practices overseas are basically unrecognizable to me as a US customer.

Yes this disparity in customer experience fuels any discussions tremendously.

And yet every time this is stated, people will come out of the woodwork to defend them. Every time I stated Apple had changed and now upselling AC+ as part of their KPI, it was downvoted on HN. Even to this day, John Gruber still wrote everything as if they were absolutely truth, and as if Apple Retail staff dont have any of that KPI in place. ( Along with USB-C being invented by Apple, or AirPod are selling cost or lost )

It is sad how much Apple has changed since Steve Job's passing.

I don't know about the rest of that, but I've definitely been those people before. The disparity is just so large it feels like adverse stories must be wrong, or aberrational

You have to give credit to the author for going through the trouble.

I suppose they posted anonymously to save themselves from harassment, but it would have been nice if this was followed up with by a local journalist. It seems like a slam dunk kind of consumer advocacy article.

Still - wow - quite a few different court trips - I know I would have thrown in the towel much earlier.

TIL: They have separate courts in China (that can't always help you) for e-commerce grievances.

Would a journalist even cover the case? The 12315 is a government organisation and they failed him.

There's journalism in China? :-O /s

I see you bought Apple device with extensive support outside of US? Already in EU buying Apple borders with masochism - because of higher prices and nonexistent customer service. Complaint? Sent a letter to Ireland. Failure? Please replace device into refurbished one in our chain of dodgy "authorized service points". Apple store? Make an appointment so our consultants will explain why you should spend more money.

I am in the EU and got perfect customer service. Really no complaints.

You're probably living in their "core market" country or/and are lucky.

This sort on crap is why I never buy phone insurance, and always buy cheap android phones for a under 200. My current Nokia was under 100 and still has all the functions I need in a smartphone.

I've never bought anything from Apple, too high a price to pay for the device, what my use case would be, and in the case it's damaged. Even if I did I certainly woukd not falling for their miss-selling insurance.

Insurance is, economically, at best an inverse lottery, where you trade a large unexpected cost for small reliable costs. But like a lottery, you’re also paying a premium for the service, otherwise the insurance company loses money.

So if the expected cost is higher with insurance than without, the cases where insurance make sense are restricted to a few niche cases:

- you think you are more likely to use the insurance than others, eg by being more clumsy (and without paying a higher premium)

- you can’t absorb a one time cost without basically financial ruin

- you want to commit insurance fraud

- you want the psychological benefits of peace of mind

I think the last point is the real reason why people get insurance for random consumer items. However, there’s a simple cure for this: a personal rainy day fund. Set aside some money every month and expect that it will be used. When shit happens, don’t feel bad. Don’t blame yourself. Just instantly replace what you lost and move on. If you are more careful about your stuff than the average insurance-taker (very easy), you’ll get away with a much better deal over time.

(Mostly off topic, because Apple care is a package containing more than just insurance afaik)

> - you think you are more likely to use the insurance than others, eg by being more clumsy (and without paying a higher premium)

Unfortunately, this is exactly my life with my family. For my own phone, I don't use a case or screen protector. I've had exactly one small crack in one phone and have never lost a phone. My wife and teen son however manage to destroy one phone per year.

The money I spend on Asurion galls me, but it's still literally hundreds of dollars cheaper than not having it. (Knocking on wood) So far, my experience with them has been stellar, and they do a lot to make it easy for me to give them money. Requesting a new phone takes about 5 minutes online, and the one time I had to call (because it was impossible to turn off "find my" on the phone) service was helpful and solved my problem.

> My current Nokia was under 100 and still has all the functions I need in a smartphone

Funny thing is, in this case AC+ cost the guy $75/year plus $99 for "Accidental damage repair deductible".

Maybe i get a sub-100 Nokia as my next phone. If it breaks (unlike the old ones the new Nokias do break eventually) I will just order a new one instead of wasting time fighting with Apple costumer service and all that.

For a very long time, I had not purchased a single Apple product. My first purchase was in 2016 and it was the iPhone 8, only because my cellular phone carrier in the US offered a second phone free during a holiday special. I gave the free phone to my son.

I have no complaints against the phone. Pretty solid build. It still works and is my primary phone and my son also is using his.

A few years ago my son got Apple earpods. In December last year, the charging case malfunctioned (the lightning connector pin wouldn't sit properly) and we took it to an authorized Apple service center (here in India) to get it fixed.

They charged INR 450 (~$6 USD) as the earpods case was out of warranty and fixed it in 10 minutes. The lightning connector pin had broken and the broken pin/fragment had logded inside the port. The technician removed it and the unit is functional again.

The service center is not an Apple exclusive center. It is a multi-brand service center but is authorized to service Apple devices. (They were able to check warranty status etc.,).

I had run through more lightning cables (mostly broken pin/fraying of cable) in the last 7 years than having to service the phone/other accessories.

I think the difference here is that it was Apple authorized not a store run by Apple itself

Sample size of one. Both standard AppleCare and AppleCare+ have been increasingly indispensable for me in the last decade as the quality of all Apple hardware has been in steady decline.

On average my macbooks, iphones, watches don't last a year. AC+ shortens and reduces the negotiation headaches.

I always try to go to Genius Bars and avoid AASP. The bars are generally much more benevolent in developed markets — US, HK, SG — compared to developing like Bangkok.

With careful and polite negotiation you can often get free repairs and replacements (and once in a blue moon, upgrades) out of warranty.

While mostly in Asia, I often start a support case with Apple Support US, they can make a favorable decision and transfer me to their global branches, who then can direct a local Bar or AASP.

The Genius Bars in Mainland China (I mostly dealt with the one in Shenzhen) were great.

That speak volumes to the quality of apple products and is further backed up by Louis Rossman

That’s wild that your devices have such a short lifespan.

Anecdata - All of my Apple devices have lasted several years without issue at all.

Woah, that's a huge lifetime shortage. Anecdata++; Last macbook pro I had lasted 6 years, sat in storage for 2 years, and at the moment my sister is using it as a replacement for a 3-year-old chromebook that crapped out a few months ago. It was the 2014 intel model w/8gb ram.

Wow, 1 year? I have a fully functional 2009 mbp, a 2016 model, a couple of 2018 needing a new battery and keyboard fixes, and a 2018 iphone 8 needing a battery replacement. After fixing, I fully expect those devices to work another 4, 5 years.

Yep, I have happy exceptions like that as well. Average has been getting worse though. Lots of travel in hot humid climates might be contributing, but unintuitively that's where the majority of apple product usage happens.

So in summary, never buy AppleCare+. Like any insurance they prefer not to pay (repair) and unfortunately you depend on their judgement.

Or, rather, never buy AC+ that is actually "Shanghai Ya Mei International Consulting Co. Ltd.".

I checked for the Netherlands. It says '... een verzekeringspolis die is verstrekt door het Nederlandse filiaal van AIG Europe Limited' = '... an insurance policy provided by the Dutch branch of AIG Europe Limited'.

So its probably that in many (most? all?) countries you are not dealing with Apple but with some third party insurance company.

I assume this means Apple is making a margin on selling the insurance, the insurance company is making a profit on the policy and Apple making a profit on any repairs.

I am very happy that I never bought AppleCare for any of my Apple products.

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