For me its easy for me to avoid eating during the week, much more than controlling my eating habits and eating like an adult... but then weekend comes and it becomes 10X harder, especially if others are eating around me. And then a sunny day comes and you "have" go have some barbecue and beer, an hamburguer at night, etc.
I feel way better living like this than when I'm home for the holidays binging on cheezits and having three meals a day. I like the hunger pangs; it feels like my body is doing useful work, and it makes the eventual meal all the more satisfying.
Could you talk a bit about your diet?
Same--I've never set about intentionally doing so, I just developed the habit of not eating breakfast, and as a result my body just doesn't start feeling hungry until 1-2PM anyway. I have a late-ish sizable lunch, and then usually only need something snack-size in the evening.
It was different when I used to work in an office that had an endless supply of catered pastries; the temptation was too great, and it always seemed like a small amount, one at a time.
It's hard to be prescriptive about this, though--other people in my family have a much more intense relationship with food, and feel weak/ravenous if they skip a meal. For whatever reason I'm lucky enough to not feel it in a very physical way.
I have a hypothesis about this. Lots of people have never experienced what it's like to actually starve, so the baseline that triggers their survival instincts is higher than it should be.
So when their body is signaling "not full", they incorrectly interpret it as "hungry". And when their body is signaling "hungry", they interpret it as "starvation".
We are evolved to live on subsistence diets punctuated by occasional feasting. Feeling "full" all the time is not a normal or healthy state for us.
I see this most easily when I tell people about the survival "rule of threes": you can survive three minutes without air, three days without water, and three weeks without food. So if you're lost in the woods, say, finding food isn't even close to an immediate priority. People often react to this with disbelief.
It’s definitely relevant to this thread though, which is about intermittent fasting. And not which is the most extreme fast.
Here's Peter Attia talking about some of the potential problems - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6wczdlcBtI - his perspective is particularly refreshing because he was a big proponent of intermittent fasting / time-restricted feeding for a long time.
Just eat the whole fruit. It still has sugar but the time it takes for your body to slowly digest it means the sugar is released slowly and you get a steady flow of energy.
I've actually been kinda confused about my diet for a year or so. I gained a bunch of weight and thought it was because of meds, but a couple of years ago on a similar diet I lost a bunch of weight. I guess I'm just following procedures instead of counting calories these day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFxAHRo4NqM
He used to do four 7-day fasts per year (one per quarter). He's chilled on that though after doing a dexa scan and seeing how much muscle mass he's lost. Exercise seems to be what he's focusing on now. He tweeted this, which I found remarkable: https://twitter.com/PeterAttiaMD/status/1499407558468980736/...
Basically, the hazard ratio of being a smoker is _better_ than that of someone who doesn't exercise. Louder, for those in the back:
No exercise is worse than smoking
HN fasting, low-carb, and keto zealots (there's massive overlap) really hate being told that their fad diet(s) don't work or are outright dangerous. In fairness, it does look like if you're extremely diligent in terms of meeting your protein requirements, even OMAD might not cause muscle loss, but in general, it seems like a bad idea.
These days, I've noticed that I usually get one major hunger pain about 9-10am, and if I can make it through that without eating, making it to noon is easy. So I just make sure to have an extra cup of coffee right to distract the mouth, and before long, it's lunchtime.
But I really hardly hold to that schedule on the weekends. I'm really not trying to do it intentionally, it's just habit at this point, so if I slip, IDGAF. Plus, now I've got kids, and I'm the designated "eat whatever they don't so nothing is wasted" parent. So that basically results in small snacks basically 7-7.
"Are you still saying Intermittent Fasting?" No.
Out of respect to people who have the discipline to go 24hours or more without eating I can't bring myself to say I am "fasting" simply because I had a late breakfast and early dinner. "Time restricted eating" (TRE) is the phrase I personally use.
Adopting that phrase might free you from feeling like an imposter if that is partly the reason you are troubled by not adhering to it on weekends. Just do TRE weekdays if that is what your lifestyle will accommodate. It's what I do and I consider it a personal win.
What I've seen in my fasting and weight logs, is that doing multiple day fasts helps me keep weight off. The problem I've had in the past was not transitioning to a 'maintenance' schedule.
I'm doing 3 days of water+coffee (this is my third week). Last time I tried this in 2021 I lost 25 pounds (195->175) in 2 months. My plan now is to transition to 2 days a week once I've lost the weight.
I've done 5 days fast, 2 days feeding for a month straight and didn't lose any weight that I didn't immediately regain upon the 2 feeding days.
I've found that there's a sweet spot as to fasting length: too soon (say a day) and I feel really hungry, so calorie count probably doesn't add up as I eat more than I 'saved'. Wait too long and the something similar happens (starving), my ideal spot seems to be ~3 days and breaking the fast with a 'regular'/not-eating-out meal.
I don't supplement for the fasting, from what I've read ~3 days isn't long enough to warrant that. Just lots of water and some salt (iodized) if I'm doing 4 days. Usually headaches may show up at the end of the 3rd day but that just tells me I'm not hydrating properly (also piss color helps get feedback on this).
Much easier to do when your appetite is suppressed. Also - don’t know if taking adderall breaks a fast, so I may be totally off.
Haven’t measured my weight change, but I’m certainly burning more calories than I’m eating so it could be a number of factors.
Funny, I got downvoted yesterday for suggesting Adderall abuse is a problem, and here you are admitting that you use it as an appetite suppressant.
Taking additional doses, or utilizing it on weekends for non-professional pursuits, to me, would constitute abuse.
However, to each their own. It’s been a net benefit to me.
> weekend comes and it becomes 10X harder, especially if others are eating around me. And then a sunny day comes and you "have" go have some barbecue and beer, an hamburguer at night, etc.
It's okay to take days off! Especially if that makes the diet/lifestyle more sustainable for you overall.
I fast for 2-3 weeks quarterly. Water only.
When I am sick for any reason I start fasting immediately.
What has this done for me? My weight is finally where it should be from decades of abuse. Autoimmune conditions and diabetes are under control.
I posted a while back that my sleep was about 2-4 hours nightly. Over the last 5 or so months that has increased to 6 hours a night.
Edit: I drink at least 1 gallon of water per day.
- go for a walk, it will stop/slow your craving pretty fast. i do walk a lot, but just going around the block is usually enough to distract my stomach.
- consume electrolytes like potassium capsules. i take 1-2 99mg capsules per day.
- get some iodized salt, eat a 1/2 teaspoon 1-2 times a day with water. this will boost your energy on an empty stomach.
- coffee/caffeine. i drink 3-5 cups of coffee or tea per day.
- eat a big, healthy dinner, with some berries or an apple for dessert.
But I also do it sometimes to try to lose weight, which hasn't been successful. I'm still a little reluctant to do it every day, and my wife worries a lot when I say I'm considering it. But cutting calories has been really, really hard, so I'm still thinking about it.
I definitely don't have the same energy level by lunch if I skip breakfast, so that's a factor, too.
At first I lost a lot of weight, but then it slowly came back despite being sticking to the plan. So that was frustrating.
I do find that I have much less gastric trouble when I fast than when I don’t. I just feel comfortable in this mode. This time around I am allowing myself to have broth if I get very hungry.
I don't know what the right mixture is for anyone else, but I do know that going from wrong to right can make life worth living.
The weirdest thing I've noticed is whenever I eat pizza, it makes me super hungry about 5h later.
I don't like feeling hungry so I've banned pizzas.
I hear you re: weekend and beers, and on those nights I would just start eating much later next day.
Also if you miss occasionally one day every couple of months because you were out on a late dinner or date - no harm done. I still find it easy to keep a 13-hour window which I read is the minimum threshold for IF.
Live a little. Turning IF into a religion makes it really hard to follow and a chore.
Also if I feel hungry in the afternoon, but had my last meal later the night before, I would just find myself a task to complete (household chore, or an actual work task) or would go for a walk / go shopping, which provides a 1-3 hour fast extension.
I don't need to lose weight (I'm 110 lbs) so I eat before going to bed, which also helps me sleep like a baby: it's better than taking a melatonin!
That said my natural eating rhythm is not to eat breakfast so if you discount cream in coffee I'm doing a natural 16:8 anyway.
Days where I don't work out, back to 16+ hours fasting.
I look at it as a key part of my overall strategy.
Did not lose weight but didn’t gain any either.
But there are days when you just can't keep it up, esp. when socializing. And it's OK to not do it 1-2 days/week, it is not going to completely undo the gains you might have made (gains might be: better gut health, weight loss, weight maintenance, whatever).
To be technically correct, I practice something that's closer to Time Restricted Feeding (TRF) than it is to Intermittent Fasting (IF). Subtle, but important difference being, IF usually also entails reducing caloric intake, whereas in TRF you eat the same amount of food you would if you were eating throughout the day do it within a much smaller time window (4-8 hrs).
I had to work a lot at it, lest of which was developing enough will power to resist yummy food in front of me!
There are a few tricks that have helped me, and it all boils down to how strict you want to be and if and when you have to break it, don't feel guilty about it afterwards.
Here's what works best for me, in that order... #0. Never go to sleep without brushing my teeth, so, the first thing I do when I have wrapped up my last meal of the day is get up and brush my teeth. So if I have a temptation to break the fast before my intended time, then there's additional friction because then I have this one more boring chore to do, brush my teeth before calling it the day. Surprising this 2-min chore is a good enough deterrent to work! (Note: doesn't work if you really enjoying brushing your teeth :-D, so YMMV). Key is to add some tangible and immediate friction to breaking the fast/routine.
#1. Most of my friends and family now know about intermittent-fasting, so instead of forcing food, most of them are supportive and even accommodate in their planning. But still, so much of our socializing is built around food'ing that you will stick out like a sore thumb if you are too rigid/strict; that is where #2 comes in handy.
#2. If the next big "party/meal/socializing" is planned then I will simply skip a meal the previous day to compensate for it. It is harder than it sounds, and it takes some mental and physical conditioning, but that's the best approach of trying to find a middle-ground. If it is unplanned,try to compensate it afterwards (best if done immediately the following day, instead of accumulating it for later!).
#3. Don't get anal about absolute calories (it is futile anyways), instead, I tend to focus on the quality of food I ingest: vegetables, protein, fibers, fats and limit added/refined sugar as much as humanly possible.
#4. And (I know this is a repeat) if you still have to prematurely break the intermittent-fasting/time-restricted-feeding routine, don't feel guilty about it and just enjoy the "extra" meal :-)
IM me if you want to know more.
Chronic Type 1 Diabetic here so the things I'm about to describe are high risk and are not endorsed by anyone in my world-class care team. They are aware that I understand and accept the risks having grown up and been educated at Children's Hospital and Joslin. I wear an insulin pump and two Continuous Glucose Monitors (CGM).
It's all about executive function. From a root cause perspective, I'd start there since that's really what determines health.
My fasting started 15 years ago when I read Seth Roberts Shangri La Diet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Roberts
I'm one of those people who can balance empirical and phenomenological despite n-of-1 emergent qualities.
In 2007, I'd fast for 3 days liquid-only roughly once every 90 days. I used Roberts extra light olive oil hack (ELOO) to help. I don't do that anymore though it had no negative effects in my experience. I practiced that cadence until 2020.
In 2019, I stopped eating meat. I like meat but it was the easiest way to get the caloric load and impurities down. From fall 2019 to summer 2020 I lost 50 lbs. Ate plant-based whole foods for two years, then and now vegetarian. Over that time I've varied from 0MAD, 1MAD, and 2MAD while finishing a half and full marathon in 2021 and 2022, respectively. I run mostly daily, varying between 10K and 10 miles with occasional half marathon distances tossed in for good effect.
Post 2022, I've done a series of experiments with some success. Those include emulating Valter Longo's protocol with soup for a Fast-Mimicking Diet (FMD). Also, my current regimen has been eating M-W-F and fasting T-Th-Sat-Sun. I sustained that for a couple weeks and I'm eating once or twice daily now. I'll probably reverse the intermittent binge-ing in new experiments, so 4 days eat, 3 days fast per week; theme and variations.
I'll probably return to a odd-metered cadence of fast-feast weeks as it made meals much easier with the challenges you mention.
For whatever reason, I ate 5-6K calories/day from high school through college and couldn't fast a few hours. At my age now, fasting is easier than eating and could very well be related to delayed gastric emptying or some other complication of disease. I have no evidence.
The less I eat, the better I feel, while benefiting from the anecdotal improvement in cognitive function that comes with ketosis. Like leading ultramarathon runners, I don't practice ketosis as perfection, but rather, a state I hit occasionally without making it an end-goal. Paraphrasing Peter Attia, it's the cycle, not the state that matters.
The limiting factor for me is of course not ketosis, but ketoacidosis. The former is well-managed for me because it's predictable, euglycemic, and easy-to-fix with carbs. The latter was common enough to me as a young person that I know the ketosis flu feeling well and avoid it by testing compulsively. Just like software!
FWIW, I've vomited water in euglycemic ketosis and know enough to avoid the emergency room. This scares my medical team, since there are truly frightening and deadly side effects (refeeding syndrome), but I'm still here.
I've worked in medical devices and healthcare so my learning has been enhanced by those experiences where we treated patients who responded well to coaching around metabolic illness including cancer and diabetes, both of which respond to diet and fasting.